Are we ready for a Debate on "drugs"?

by i Sat Jul 26, 2003 17:53

Cannabis:
international association of Cannabis as medicine.
http://www.acmed.org/
Heroin:
http://www.herointimes.com/

Law enforcement agencies national:
Garda drugs unit.
http://www.garda.ie/angarda/gndu.html
PSNI drugs unit.
http://www.drugsprevention.net/drugs/default.asp?s=B&d=B2

Global:
United Nations Office for Drug Control and Crime Prevention.
list of all resolutions relating to drugs.
http://www.unodc.org/unodc/resolutions.html
analysis and statistics.
http://www.unodc.org/unodc/analysis_and_statistics.html?id=19
UNODCCP works closely with both the DEA and FBI.

by Galwayanarchist Sat Jul 26, 2003 19:22

What IS a non problem drug exactly? Canabis? Alcohol? Nicotine?

I don't think any of these, or even most medicinal drugs, are problem free.

(As someone with experience with drugs, I do understand the varying degrees of drug-related problems, however:)

It is very easy for anarchists and leftists to fall into the spectacle-induced role of defending a person's right to intoxicate themselves, believing in the social benefits of certain drugs

but couldn't we delve a little deeper and debate why we feel intoxicating ourselves to be a worthwhile pastime at all?

by aargh - whatever Sat Jul 26, 2003 22:53 guess

gee, could it have something to do with a massive yet largely unacknowledged colonial hangover?

could it have something to do with massive yet largely unacknowledged supposedly post-catholic catholic guilt?

by Kev Sun Jul 27, 2003 01:05

???

by anus mundi Sun Jul 27, 2003 16:01

Who knows Kev ... maybe you have put your finger on an important point there ?

by Badman Mon Jul 28, 2003 01:21

staying sober so that you can be more productive for your c**t of a boss, in the shit job that you hate, with only the big sports match to look forward to, every night, with nary a psychedelic thought or flight of fancy to keep you from topping yourself.

by Seáinín Mon Jul 28, 2003 02:26

The weather is criminal.

by pat c Mon Jul 28, 2003 10:41

In a Socialist Society will everything be so good, we wont require mind-=altering substances?

Hmmm, if I'm going to have to keep freeloaders off bridges, I might need the odd magic mushroom.

by iosaf Mon Jul 28, 2003 11:14

Gailleamh: *non problem drug user* is someone whose use of drugs is: medicinal, therapeutic, recreational. (in that order). Other conditions in the criteria: frequency of habit, nature of compulsion (metabolic addiction, toxicity, etc).
I've have taken the liberty of adjusting *problem drug user* which is the standard term for: person whose drug use cuases serious disruption to both their own and other's lives, (bodily harm, pathogenic change, crime). Crime may both be in order of priority in the global statistics referred to above acquistive and violent (abuse of partner/family).

We may not either as campaigners in Ireland or the World long ignore the drug debates. This is a global trade and touches upon all issues discussed merrily on other threads.

The closest most people in Ireland will ever come to the social reality of death squads for trade unionists, civil wars fueled by drug production and exportation is...
the traces of cocaine in the club toilet.
the joint that gets you through the night.
the cigarettes you reach for every hour.

Perhaps this debate never appears to really happen because drawing out the links is to embarassing or "complex" for many.

That duality best epitomised by the seeming paradox that the FBI/DEA areoften the opposite side of the CIA in the "global war on drugs", which since Clinton's adjustment of South American policy in tandem with Bush's recent approach to African policy increasingly finds common ground with the "global war on terrorism" and the "global war on migration".

Maybe as this really is the subject that brings us to ponder the work of said FBI/DEA/CIA in the hall of mirrors subterfuge and lies which undoubtedly is "our world", we just leave drugs in the dark.

by Kev Mon Jul 28, 2003 12:00

"with only the big sports match to look forward to"

And Kildare even let me down on that count. Twice! Useless!

by Yella Bellie Mon Jul 28, 2003 17:40

Can some one please deliver an ounce of speed to the Wexford Hurling Manager in two weeks time, (and maybe some Valium in the Cork teams orange juice)

by iosaf Mon Jul 28, 2003 18:24

and I reckon PCP would be better than speed for that type of game, now a flat race or sprinting I might go with intense upper, but speed I wouldn't give to hurling players at all, you've got to be wise when it comes to chemicals.
Amphetamine (Speed) causes paranoia and dehydration, come down effects can include cramps.
not good for hurling.
PCP gives a hallucinating strength of wonder with the legs of ten thousand league booties.
Jaysus the ignoraance is awful.

by Kev Mon Jul 28, 2003 19:42

pcp has also been known to enduce fits of uncontrollable rage, and a sense of 'diminished responsibilty' for violent acts carried out in pursuit of a percieved goal -

Um, just like club level Ga...

by Badman Mon Jul 28, 2003 20:50

maybe it's because the occasional silencing of our frontal lobes is something that is simply necessary for human health, like exercise, fresh air and a balanced diet. Intoxicants work in various ways, but the one common property of drugs that are used for recreational purposes is that they interfere with messages from the frontal lobes, the part of the brain which produces feelings of anxiety, responsibility and social inhibitions.

There is, to my knowledge, no known pre-modern society wherein some type of intoxicant was not widely used. Intoxicants have, of course, been pushed underground and extinguished from the mainstream of society for periods of time. However, all of the known examples were very much imposed from above, as quite conscious means of controlling people. The extermination of intoxication has only really had any degree of success when the ruling class has enjoyed a high degree of social control over people's lives, stretching deeply into the private life. Victorian England, Bolshevik Russia, Ireland of the 30's, 1950's USA, were good examples, and also must all rank among the historical nadirs of human society.

To me this ubiquity of intoxicant use, alongside the extraordinary level of social control that is required to drive it underground, suggests that occasional intoxication is a basic biological need of the species. Naturally the nature of the substance used to achieve the intoxication differs depending on the specific historical context but that is immaterial.

by iosaf Mon Jul 28, 2003 22:27

PCP is associated with Cows back in the bad FF days when one cow on the pasture meant one carcess in Brussels and one in Iran and more hormones than your average teeny bopper nightclub.

Nowadays not even cows get the PCP treatment and you won't find it anywhere for love or money even on the banks of the canal. PCP would last about the first half, by which stage Wexford would have fairly knocked the shit out of the Corkonians, but in the rest period, i'm sure the psychotic breakdown would keep some of the star players on the bench.
I think on second thoughts I'd recommend something a little less "hectic", a red bull and strip of caffeine tablets like the students take before the exams, you must remember that even if an estimated 30% of student doctors and nurses are speeding up to the eye balls, when operating heavy machinery or playing GAA it's best to be the healthy product of good play, clean living and social egalitarianism which you'd find at this type of games:http://www.2003wpfg.org/

by Chap Tue Jul 29, 2003 04:22

Anyone want to know how many people are killed every year by pharmaceuticals??

Anyone got any decent Johns Wort?

by iosaf Tue Jul 29, 2003 13:33

or how many people are killed every year because someone else is getting drugs?
or how many people get killed every year so that the drugs get through?
figures-numbers-statistics and
John's Wort.
believed to alleviate depression.
I recommend that the Cork team go onto a course of infusion of John's Wort mixed with Salvia (which is also intriguingly "legal" and makes the colours go sort of bright).

by iosaf Tue Jul 29, 2003 15:51

Cat is short for Catalonia.
Khat is something different, a mild stimulant Khat is popular amongst East Africans, it tastes foul and is generally found in big anonymous sacks close to the door of grocery stores serving the dietary and drugy needs of the East African community, (somali, ethopian, etreian etc.,).
Khat must be chewed for about three hours before the effects kick in, the effects being akin to a couple of expresso coffees.
The sideffects of Khat include staining of the teeth and stomach ulcers, which considered against the side effects of coffee which are whole sale exploitation of South America and multi-nats like Starbucks make Khat the clear "moral majority" favourite. Khat is "slightly" illegal, possesion of more than one kilogram is punishable with a fine.

for today's news from Cat./madrid
http://www.elmundo.es/elmundo/2003/07/23/sociedad/1058960604.html
and for good info on Canabis
http://www.clubfumeta.com/

by Kev Tue Jul 29, 2003 18:02

Well as far as I know its 100% true...

James Brown's wife (don't know which one) was caught in France off her head on PCP. She tried to claim diplomatic immunity becuase her husband was the "Ambassador of Funk" !!!!

Quality.

by iosaf Fri Nov 07, 2003 14:26

the living and dying of our society and thus far all those who fall ill in emergency circumstances whilst on holidays, being a refugee or just lost.
Illnesses associated with Tobacco smoking are many, that is to say there are many illnesses associated with Tobacco.
Not just poverty, exploitation, absence of worker rights or anything far off the point like that.

At the time of writing, a "smoking debate" might be starting on the newswire November 2003.

Tobacco more than any other substance of abuse ought be most interesting for those interested in both the scope of the state and the possibilities of legislating for both personal right "autonomy" and collective good. We might note that Tobacco has been treated distinctly by lawmakers and lobbyists since 1968 and the first bans on advertising and consumer purchase age.

tobacco is truly a sticky topic.

BTW I am a smoker.
I am also over 18 years old.
I also take mushrooms but they are beyond legislative prohibition.

by tsk tsk tsk. Fri Feb 27, 2004 21:18

March 8th 2004 is the international day of Women, and as such the bugged and the buggers and the guilty and the shameful (those elected who "lord over us" guide us, set our interest rates and mouth our prayers and give us our sentances) will mouth platitude after cliché and re-assure us that things are better, better all the time.

It would be nice if the theme of "sex workers" was explored in Eire this year no?

it's so sweet, they get good results in college which means they miss the best parties, then they do well at work, which means they miss the best parties, and then they succeed in politics, which means they get bugged by the spooks. The more succesful the politician the more invasive the survelience, the more "icky" the blackmail.

It really is a sign of how mediocre their minds are, that they daily must deal with such low level paranoia, and didn't work it all out before hand. Oh well, you make your life choices you live with them.

think about it. :-) talk about it :-) get it all out there in the open.

by David Fri Feb 27, 2004 21:49

I think that the corporations and gangs who traffic in death and suffering should not be tolerated. Shut down tobacco companies, do everything we can to eliminate drug cartels around the world. This would limit personal choice, but its not the same as a ban. (just like the lack of affordable space travel limits my choice to holiday on mars if i want to, but its not available so i cant do that)

However, i have absolutely no objection to people being allowed to grow their own drugs/tobacco, make their own beer/spirits, pick your own mushrooms... If you want to smoke cannabis then you should have to grow it yourself or be friends with people who do. (even if people traded their produce commercially, the effect would be nowhere near as damaging as the giant corporations and the drug cartels)
This way you will be assured of the quality of what you're using, it'll be less addictive and less bad for your health. (would also give you a nice hobby), (this is not for any reason other than its the only way to ensure that your right to smoke doesnt encourage an exploitative drugs trade)

by I mac D. - comment XXIII Fri Apr 02, 2004 15:23

to intoxicate.

don't forget that.

by Leon Fri Apr 02, 2004 15:30

Are you happy to take drgs which have been produced under appalling conditions. Would fair trade has/ganja/coca appeal to you.

Surely this is an argument for legalisation.

by I mac D - moot is the motto Fri Apr 02, 2004 16:41

Methadone.
with a photo, look @ the photo, "Minister"
that is your job.
you are an elected representative of the Irish Nation. Do your job.
less polishing of the buttons, and thinking you can use the word "reclaim" and get away with it.

by which one is this? - merrovinginañañañvanjans or Pirates or 00days of the week or Schmershiiiis? Tue Jun 22, 2004 17:01

-

one day at a time thats all im asking of you. one day @ a time, oh yeah, one day @ a time.

by :-) - all of us together Wed Feb 02, 2005 12:01

think about your answers.

Nice new Sir Blair of Scotland Yard is angry about the middle income user cokeheads.
That's warning number 1.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/drugs/Story/0,2763,1403712,00.html

Update soon.

by new statesman Wed Feb 02, 2005 12:28

Observations on cannabis. By Margaret Cook

When cannabis was demoted last year from a Class B to a Class C drug, it seemed to me that the decision was influenced by a government closer to the metropolitan chattering classes than to what goes on among the socially marginalised people out in the sticks. In my work I see the worst problems of multi-drug users, and I find that one drug above all others is prone to precipitate acute mental derangement: cannabis. I know crack and heroin users who recoil in horror from smoking joints.

So I was not surprised to learn that Luke Mitchell, the 16-year-old convicted of the murder of his girlfriend Jodi Jones, had been bingeing on cannabis. He has been called evil, but his description has many of the hallmarks of psychosis: self-neglect, bizarre behaviour and complete lack of appropriate emotional response. And this is a boy who, up to the age of ten, seems to have been unremarkably normal.

One in five 15-year-olds in the UK smokes the weed. Though there is a dearth of research on its effects on the adolescent brain, evidence is accumulating that starting the habit early dramatically increases the risk of schizophrenia in the ensuing decade, and that the risk grows with frequency of use and strength of dose. An 18-year-old who has used cannabis 50 or more times suffers an elevenfold increased risk of schizophrenia in the next 15 years. For those who begin at 12 or below, with gargantuan doses, the risks are unquantifiable. In many US hospitals cannabis is now the commonest cause of urgent admission for new psychosis.

Recent research has identified genes that increase susceptibility to schizophrenia. One in particular has a variant allele that makes people especially susceptible to schizophrenia should they use cannabis: a classic gene-plus-environment interaction. If Mitchell has one or two copies of the variant, he may be the first child murderer we can recognise as genetically prone rather than inherently evil.

A developing or immature brain may be susceptible in other ways. Anecdotal reports link cannabis with suicide, paranoia (and the perceived need to carry knives), mob aggression by schoolkids, and fatal road accidents.

Most worrying is the unknown effect on the human foetal brain. Behavioural disorders and cognitive damage have been reported in children exposed in utero to cannabis. Brain imaging of young adults exposed prenatally to marijuana showed persistent changes and performance deficits compared with controls. Very recent Swedish studies show striking changes in the foetal brain's limbic system, which regulates emotional behaviour. The developing brain is clearly more vulnerable to drug damage than the adult.

Other evidence that should be heeded is that cannabis alters reward-pathways in the brain, perhaps speeding the progression to other drugs of addiction. There are also medical reports that describe cannabis causing transient ischaemic attacks (mini-strokes) in young adults and even a full-blown cerebral infarct (stroke) in a 15-year-old who used the drug heavily. Finally, among smokers of hash lung cancer could be a long-term risk, possibly increased by tobacco use.

Humans are a risk-taking species, but let's not continue to call cannabis a "safe" drug. It should be reclassified as Class A for the under-25s and pregnant women, and dealers should suffer severe penalties.

by mise Wed Feb 02, 2005 18:07

20,000 people in hospital beds around the country at any given time with alcohol related diseases. Heart failure, liver disease, respitory problems.

75% of all crime is committed by persons under the affluence of incohol - the Gardai own figures.

The single biggest cause of family breakdown.

3,000,000 working hours lost per year due to employees not showing up fro work from over indulging in alcohol.

The single biggest cause of death on our roads.

99.9% of random violence in our towns at weekends is attributed to alochol.

by eile Thu Feb 03, 2005 09:23

A "junkie" is an addict, with full metabolic (physiological) and psycological addiction. It is very difficult for "tobacco-junkies", "cocaine-junkies" and "smack-junkies" to give up. Overcoming craving almost seems to mean an ability to rewire the hard-drive. Which is why replacement therapies are used to transfer the "high", so nicotiene is supplied by patch, and amongst other substances methadone can continue to up endomorphine levels in a body which has forgotten "normal levels of pain".

A "chipper" is someone who takes heroin on an occasional basis, "chippers" almost invariably become "junkies" but because withdrawl symtpoms are not felt by the "chipper" to be as acute as a "junkie on the street" they don't notice increased consumption of other drugs. Chippers tend to come from a different socio-economic background, typically with easier access to narcotics, such as medical professionals, nurses and indeed some security forces.
Anger in Scotland-
http://news.scotsman.com/health.cfm?id=128032005
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/4230145.stm