OscailtVote NO to the Two Referendums on ThursdayVote NO to reduce judges' pay | Vote NO to give the government MORE POWER
Breaking news: Italian MP, Sgarbi denounces the Statistical Fraud on COVID-19. The speech of the Member of Parliament Vittorio Sgarbi in the session of the Italian Camera, Meeting no. 331 of Friday 24, April, 2020. Vittorio Sgarbi, denounces the closure of 60% of the businesses for 25,000 COVID-19 Deaths, of which the National Institute of Health says 96.3% died NOT of COVID-19 but of other pathologies. That means only 925 have died of the virus. 24,075 have died of other things.2011-10-24T23:37:54+00:00Indymedia Irelandimc-ireland@lists.indymedia.iehttp://www.indymedia.ie/atomfullposts?story_id=100792http://www.indymedia.ie/graphics/feedlogo.gifJudges pay referendumhttp://www.indymedia.ie/article/100792#comment2851542011-10-24T23:37:54+00:00TThe referendum on judges pay is totally dishonest and misleading. There are many...The referendum on judges pay is totally dishonest and misleading. There are many other ways that this could be decided. The way it is being presented by the government is that if you are against this then you somehow agree with higher pay for judges. There are many other ways such as independent bodies or some kind of citizens board or whatever that could be setup to review judges pay.<br><br>The important question though is why was it in the constitution in the first place. Answer because it is a key part of the mechanism of separating the powers of the judiciary and the Dail and keeping one independent of the other. <span style="font-weight: bold;">This is separate of powers is the central defining features of our (rather imperfect) parliamentary democracy system.</span><br><br>The wording of the referendum actually defines a "class" of judge. This means they can define the class any way they want and single out certain judges. As someone said on the radio, it could be the District Court judge that sits every Thursday in Swords, Co. Dublin. In effect the judges then have to watch their backs and be careful about going against the government. Whilst I don't believe they are fully independent at the moment, because they do sense the direction of the prevailing political wind at times and go with it, I certainly don't think whatever independence they have and display should be eroded further.<br><br>The proposed new wording is:<br><br><span style="font-style: italic;">5 1° The remuneration of judges shall not be reduced during their continuance in office save in accordance with this section.
</span><p>2° The remuneration of judges is subject to the imposition of taxes,
levies or other charges that are imposed by law on persons generally or
persons belonging to a particular class.</p><span style="font-style: italic;">
</span><p>3° Where, before or after the enactment of this section, reductions
have been or are made by law to the remuneration of persons belonging to
classes of persons whose remuneration is paid out of public money and
such law states that those reductions are in the public interest,
provision may also be made by law to make proportionate reductions to
the remuneration of judges.</p><br>When you look back at the very limited coverage of this issue and particularly the way it is slanted and heavily biased even on the official referendum website, you have got to be worried. <br><br><br>There are some wider considerationshttp://www.indymedia.ie/article/100792#comment2851752011-10-26T11:07:27+00:00W. FinnertyThanks to the contents of Article 6.1 of Bunreacht na hEireann (the
written Co...<p>Thanks to the contents of Article 6.1 of Bunreacht na hEireann (the
written Constitution of the Republic of Ireland), the "Powers of
Our Government" are much more a "Tri-Partite Separation of Powers"
arrangement, than a "Bi-Partite" one.<br>
<br>
Some further information relating to this point can be found via the
following link:<br>
<a href="http://www.humanrightsireland.com/PresidentialHopefuls/6October2011/Email.htm#Tri-Partite_Separation_of_Powers" title="http://www.humanrightsireland.com/PresidentialHopefuls/6October2011/Email.htm#Tri-Partite_Separation_of_Powers">http://www.humanrightsireland.com/PresidentialHopefuls/...owers</a><br>
<br>
Correctly or otherwise, it has long been my view that our judiciary
could have used their potentially very powerful role -- in the
"Tri-Partite Separation of Powers" arrangement -- to prevent all (or
almost all) of the really serious government wrongdoing of the past decade or two: but,
they failed to do so; and, the really big unanswered (and extremely
disturbing) question in my mind is "WHY"?<br>
<br>
<b>"Abuse of power by one</b>
(of the three main branches of
government)<b> can be checked by the
others and tyranny, hopefully, is
prevented." </b>("Principles
of Irish Law" by Dublin
Law Lecturer Brian Doolan.)</p>Leaning to Yes fo bothhttp://www.indymedia.ie/article/100792#comment2851772011-10-26T11:09:25+00:00Justin MorahanUnless someone convinces me otherwise.The kangaroo courts I have seen so far hav...Unless someone convinces me otherwise.<br><br>The kangaroo courts I have seen so far have been in the courts<br><br>They are so unfair and corrupt that I am willing to take a chance<br><br><br>I agree, The legal system is corrupt and broken, but I'm still voting nohttp://www.indymedia.ie/article/100792#comment2851812011-10-26T12:33:44+00:00SerfJustin has a point.
what we've seen in belmullet proves that it doesn't matter ...Justin has a point.<br><br>
what we've seen in belmullet proves that it doesn't matter if we vote no on this. When it counts, The courts still act in the interests of power. <br><br>
Thats a corruption / elite consensus problem. <br>
However this is still bad legislation going into our constitution. We should not facilitate this in law either.<br><br>
There are better ways to control judges pay. <br>
And there are better ways to allow committees to investigate with safeguards.<br><br>
I'm still voting no, even though I agree with Justin that the legal system is corrupt and broken and that it currently exists to take away rights from poorer people not bestow them, whilst enriching those in the corrupt profession.<br><br>
These people made a fortune during the property bubble overcharging "conveyances". They are vultures always profiting from the carcasses of our misery.Don't be fooledhttp://www.indymedia.ie/article/100792#comment2851822011-10-26T14:08:41+00:00W. FinnertyI believe that all three of the main branches of our Government already have
mo...<p>I believe that all three of the main branches of our Government already have
more than enough powers to prevent wrongdoing by our overall Government (i.e.
Executive, Legislative, and Judicial).<br>
<br>
The real problem is that they -- all three of the main branches of our
Government that is -- are failing to use their powers inherent in the
Tri-Partite Separation of Powers Principle (upon which our written Constitution
is structured) in socially responsible and sensible ways ways: either because of
ignorance, fear, or whatever?<br>
<br>
What, for example, has there ever been to prevent one or more of our TDs (or
Senators, or a mixed group of TDs and Senators) to formally challenge -- through
the High Court, and if necessary the Supreme Court -- the legislation which is
at present being used in connection with our taxpayers bailing out the bankers
regarding their "banking derivatives" gambling debts, or, with the "great
giveaway" of our untapped oil and gas reserves (estimated to be worth 5.4
trillion Euros)?<br>
<br>
Among other things, the crucially important matter of the people having the
"final" say, under the "common good" terms of Article 6.1 of our Constitution
(the highest law of the land), is being blatantly ignored in both these examples
of extremely serious "Government (Big G) Wrongdoing".</p>
our laws can only be as good..http://www.indymedia.ie/article/100792#comment2851832011-10-26T14:30:59+00:00opus diablos..as those who interpret them.The constitution has loads of qualifiers for the c.....as those who interpret them.<br><br>The constitution has loads of qualifiers for the common good.. but they are overridden by private interests and the culture of individualism and social-darwinian competition.<br>If Gallagher get home, the entrepreneurial(read pirate)PD culture is redeemed and back in the saddle for the duration. <br><br>A slightly different viewhttp://www.indymedia.ie/article/100792#comment2851862011-10-26T14:53:45+00:00W. FinnertyIn response to Opus (at
Wed Oct 26, 2011 14:30), I would say that laws are only...In response to Opus (at<span class="article-details"><span class="article-detail"><em>
Wed Oct 26, 2011 14:30)</em></span></span>, I would say that laws are only as
good as those who stand up for them.<br>
<br>
The Republic of Ireland's biggest problem just now (in my view) is that,
for far too long, far too few people have been willing to stand up for the
highest law of our Nation (i.e. our written Constitution); and, the main and
very worrying upshot of all that is the people of the Republic of Ireland have
slowly but surely ended up being saddled with a very large pile of secondary
legislation which violates the highest law of the land: bogus and invalid
secondary law in other words; but, which our judiciary, and indeed our entire
legal profession nonetheless wholeheartedly -- and entirely fraudulently and
perversely -- supports (both by "deed" and by "omission").<br>
<br>
A nice "how do you do" we all (as a Nation) now find ourselves in?come againhttp://www.indymedia.ie/article/100792#comment2851962011-10-26T22:14:05+00:00aunt vanyaOn a point of information, the Constitution specifically provides for subordinat...<P>On a point of information, the Constitution specifically provides for subordinate legislation. Even when the Constitution was drafted back in the 1930s it was recognized that the modern state required subordinate legislation in order to function, and that primary legislation couldn't do the job on its own efficiently (Imagine the Dail debating whether or not parking should be allowed in the centre of Ballydehob!). However, subordinate legislation must operate strictly within the primary legislation which delegates the power to make regulations, etc. The Courts operate to enforce this principle by way of their judicial review jurisdiction.</P>
<P>On the point of the referenda:</P>
<P>1. Judges pay: The referendum will cost us several times what will be recovered from the 15% of judges who refused to allow their salaries be reduced. Moreover, the new pension-capping rules will cost the judges far more and many have made the decision to retire before the February 2012 deadline. There is nothing in the present Constitutional provisions to prevent their replacements being paid much lower salaries on appointment. Anyhow, the whole thing is a diversion. We would have saved much more money by passing an amendment providing theat no one can keep more than one public (national or EU) pension.</P>
<P>2. Dail inquiries: The example of the powerful US Congressional committees is often cited in support of this amendment. No thanks. The MacCarthyite House Committee on UnAmerican Activities undermines this argument. At present, Representative Peter King is conducting a shameless Islamaphobic witch-hunt under the auspices of a Congressional committee. However, the former AGs should have kept quiet. They hardly strengthen the case against the proposed amendment. Gleeson and Sutherland would both be candidates for investigation in any inquiry into the economic crash and banking crisis. In any case, the wording is horribly flawed, and could facilitate legislation which could give the Oireachtas powers that few other democratic legislatures enjoy. Much more important is proper criminal legislation to ensure that inthe future the sort of behaviour that precipated the banking and fiscal crises will attract criminal liability and proportionate punishment. </P>the law is a toolhttp://www.indymedia.ie/article/100792#comment2851972011-10-26T22:26:54+00:00opus diablosof the moneyed..the decent, conscientious poeple dont need it to know how to beh...of the moneyed..<br><br>the decent, conscientious poeple dont need it to know how to behave, but often get trapped by it; and the rats either ignore it or exploit it, or both. <br><br>Both these amendments are herrings, as is the presidential ZZ-factoring... but I'll be voting NO NO and McG..because he frightens the gombeens..and I'll give MDH a second..to try and block Gallagher's gallop...seems the only way to use it.<br>Look at the objectors ?http://www.indymedia.ie/article/100792#comment2851982011-10-26T22:55:01+00:00RobertSo might McDowell be a candidate re Thornton Hall and more and he coul...<P>So might McDowell be a candidate re Thornton Hall and more and he could find himself there fairly quickly, might be one reason why he appeared so agitated last night on Prime Time.</P>
<P>The banker boys have cover for the time being and god knows how much longer, as the proposed committees cannot examine what is under criminal investigation.</P>
<P>The charge against this is being led by lawyers, ex AGs, Goldman Sachs Head Honcho (and austerity for the masses merchant Suds) and an ex Banker Gleeson.</P>
<P>All of the elected political parties (bar SP ULA, havent heard from them ?) are for it and they can, in the last analysis, be turfed out, unlike errant judges, who resigned with big pensions for dirty work at the crossroads and alleged dirty work on a computer. Who served the out of date warrant on the latter ? There would hang a tale. </P>
<P>Late and proper debate is a problem with the inquiry proposal for me, but some of those guys pleading is a bit too much to stomach. They may be hurt by shakedowns of information which they do not want the rest of us to know about.</P>Judgeshttp://www.indymedia.ie/article/100792#comment2851992011-10-26T23:08:24+00:00cropbeyeAt present the seperation of powers are
totally balanced in favour of the court...<p>At present the seperation of powers are </p>
<p>totally balanced in favour of the courts and the judges.</p>
<p>They cannot be trusted by the ordinary people the myth of their reliablity is misplaced</p>
<p>faith. They are much worse than the muppets in the Dail and on an anual basis</p>
<p>do lots more damage.</p>
the problem is....http://www.indymedia.ie/article/100792#comment2852012011-10-27T01:36:35+00:00leftyThe problem is
They will not use these extra powers on the right people.
They wi...The problem is<br>
They will not use these extra powers on the right people.<br>
They will use them on protesters.
A badly missed opportunityhttp://www.indymedia.ie/article/100792#comment2852022011-10-27T06:42:50+00:00W. FinnertyToday's two referendum votes ought to be have been (in my opinion)
-- under
...<p>Today's two referendum votes ought to be have been (in my opinion)
-- under
the very clear, simple, and straightforward terms of Article 6.1
of Bunreacht na hEireann (the written Constitution of the
Republic of Ireland) -- used for the purpose of
enabling the people of the Republic of Ireland to have the
"final" say on the two "common good" issues of: 1) bailing out
the bankers in connection with their self-inflicted
multi-trillion Euros "derivatives" gambling debts, and 2) the "great giveaway" of our
untapped oil and gas resources (valued at 5.4 trillion Euros).<br>
<br>
I will be voting "No" to the two referendum questions presented on
today's ballot sheet: mostly because, in terms of priorities
relating to the "common good" of the people of the Republic of
Ireland, on October 27th 2011, I see them as totally inept choices for the citizens of the Republic of Ireland to be presented with: having due regard
for the two closely related and extremely pressing issues
referred to in the paragraph above.<br>
<br>
For those who might not have seen it, the full text of
Article 6.1 of Bunreacht na hEireann -- the highest law of the
land -- reads as follows:<br>
<br>
<b>"All
powers of government, legislative, executive and
judicial, derive, under God, from the people</b><b>, whose
right it is to designate the rulers of the State
and, in final</b><b>
appeal, to decide all questions of national
policy, according to the requirements of the
common good."<br>
<br>
</b>Related link:
<a href="http://www.humanrightsireland.com/PresidentialHopefuls/6October2011/Email.htm#Article_6.1" title="http://www.humanrightsireland.com/PresidentialHopefuls/6October2011/Email.htm#Article_6.1">http://www.humanrightsireland.com/PresidentialHopefuls/...e_6.1</a></p>Excellent piece of "bank bailout referendum" newshttp://www.indymedia.ie/article/100792#comment2852922011-11-01T13:03:42+00:00W. Finnerty"ATHENS, Nov 1 (Reuters) - The leaders of France and
Germany scrambled on Tuesd...<span>"ATHENS, Nov 1 (Reuters) - The leaders of France and
Germany scrambled on Tuesday (i.e. today) to limit damage after Prime Minister
George Papandreou decided to let Greeks vote on a bailout package -- a move that
stunned markets and threw Greece's euro zone membership into question."<br>
<br>
Full text of article can be viewed at:<br>
<a href="http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/11/01/greece-referendum-idUSL5E7M108720111101" title="http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/11/01/greece-referendum-idUSL5E7M108720111101">http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/11/01/greece-refere...11101</a></span><br>
<br>
<span>My hope is that this very welcome piece of unexpected
news might help trigger a very badly needed and long overdue referendum (on the
same subject) in the Republic of Ireland).</span>Another referendum?http://www.indymedia.ie/article/100792#comment2853102011-11-01T20:29:53+00:00DerekNo way, cde Howlin would never allow it. Some people cannot be trusted.No way, cde Howlin would never allow it. Some people cannot be trusted.The Government Impunity Problemhttp://www.indymedia.ie/article/100792#comment2853692011-11-03T08:24:09+00:00W. Finnerty"As can be seen from the contents of the e-mail at the Internet address
immedi...<em>"As can be seen from the contents of the e-mail at the Internet address
immediately above, it appears to me that the Government (Executive,
Legislative, and Judicial) of the Republic of Ireland continues to
totally violate -- with complete impunity -- Article 6.1 of Bunreacht na
hEireann (the written Constitution of the Republic of Ireland), which is
the core piece of law that lays at the very heart of the highest law of
the Republic of Ireland."<br>
<br>
"I believe that the real reason my application for the State (Non
Contributory) Pension has been rejected centres around my efforts to
expose the treasonous Government crime referred to in the November 1st
2011 e-mail copied to Minister Joan Burton mentioned above -- and in
numerous other e-mails (of mine) to government ministers throughout the
entire period of the past 12 years or so -- many of which can still
readily be viewed on the several Internet web sites I have been using
for such purposes; and, that the rejection of my State Pension
application has nothing whatsoever to do with glib explanations and
statements of the 'no new evidence has been provided by you in
support of your claim' and so the 'Department is not in a
position to review your entitlement at this time' which Ms Kennedy
has stated in her October 26th 2011 letter to me at:<br>
</em><a href="http://www.humanrightsireland.com/DeniseMcMackin/21October2011/RegisteredLetter.htm#Michelle_Kennedy" title="http://www.humanrightsireland.com/DeniseMcMackin/21October2011/RegisteredLetter.htm#Michelle_Kennedy">http://www.humanrightsireland.com/DeniseMcMackin/21Octo...nnedy</a><em>
"</em><br>
<br>
The two excerpts above have been copied from the text of a registered letter
sent yesterday (i.e. November 2nd 2011) to the Republic of Ireland's <b>Chief
Appeals Officer; </b>and, a copy of it has been sent to <b>President-elect
Michael D. Higgins</b> (also through the registered post yesterday).<br>
<br>
The full text of the November 2nd 2011 registered letter to the Chief Appeals
Officer can be viewed at:<br>
<a href="http://www.humanrightsireland.com/PensionAppealsOfficer/2November2011/RegisteredLetter.htm" title="http://www.humanrightsireland.com/PensionAppealsOfficer/2November2011/RegisteredLetter.htm">http://www.humanrightsireland.com/PensionAppealsOfficer...r.htm</a>