OscailtInterview: Unmaking MythDavid Zeiger on The Vietnam Era GI Revolt
Breaking news: Italian MP, Sgarbi denounces the Statistical Fraud on COVID-19. The speech of the Member of Parliament Vittorio Sgarbi in the session of the Italian Camera, Meeting no. 331 of Friday 24, April, 2020. Vittorio Sgarbi, denounces the closure of 60% of the businesses for 25,000 COVID-19 Deaths, of which the National Institute of Health says 96.3% died NOT of COVID-19 but of other pathologies. That means only 925 have died of the virus. 24,075 have died of other things.2008-03-21T13:31:40+00:00Indymedia Irelandimc-ireland@lists.indymedia.iehttp://www.indymedia.ie/atomfullposts?story_id=86771http://www.indymedia.ie/graphics/feedlogo.gifwatch those links.http://www.indymedia.ie/article/86771#comment2238312008-03-21T13:31:40+00:00Jimbobone of your links doesn't go where it says
By the way, I just visitied www. win...one of your links doesn't go where it says<br />
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By the way, I just visitied www. wintersoldier.com is a site dedicated to discrediting the claims of the Vietnam Veterans Against The War. <br />
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and by the way, how about a link to the IVAW (Iraw Veterans Against War) who have just held Winter Soldier 2. <br />
There's blogs and videos on their website, but due to the amount of traffic, the video might not work for you. Some of it's on YouTube. I've watched some of the vids, and some of the vets featured have been here in Ireland doing talks. It's pretty valuable stuff, uncoated, unglossed honest account of what it's like to be dropped in Iraq, where the people don't want you, and the armed resistance is hard to identify, and the fairly understandable descent into overkill.<br />
I think most of us, dropped into that crazy situation would do things we'd be ashamed of later, and it takes guts for these guys to admit what they did.<br />
What's clear is that the leaders don't care what happens to Iraq, Iraqis or the troops, so long as US losses are not high enough to provoke an outcry. And they will cover up scandals, and scapegoat the 'few rotten apples' in the barrell. <br />
As these guys show, and as the film Sir! No Sir! showed, these guys got put in a rotten barrell to start with. Now they're trying to warn others not to go to Iraq, to buy the lies, and not to end up killing or dying for the benefit of a few powerful groups.<br />
Check it out at <a href="http://www.ivaw.org/wintersoldier/blog" title="http://www.ivaw.org/wintersoldier/blog">http://www.ivaw.org/wintersoldier/blog</a>forgot to say...http://www.indymedia.ie/article/86771#comment2238322008-03-21T13:33:50+00:00JimbobBig thank you for posting the interview in the first place. Big thank you for posting the interview in the first place. read more at Democracy Now, and also on YouTube.http://www.indymedia.ie/article/86771#comment2238392008-03-21T14:15:52+00:00DN
You can read more about what returning vets are saying about Iraq on Democracy...<BR><DIV align=center><object type="application/x-shockwave-flash" data="http://www.youtube.com/v/y_cjkWevHNM" width="425" height="355" wmode="transparent"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/y_cjkWevHNM" /></object></div>
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You can read more about what returning vets are saying about Iraq on DemocracyNow!<br />
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<a href="http://www.democracynow.org/2008/3/17/winter_soldier_us_vets_active_duty" title="http://www.democracynow.org/2008/3/17/winter_soldier_us_vets_active_duty">http://www.democracynow.org/2008/3/17/winter_soldier_us..._duty</a><br />
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and more here,<br />
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<a href="http://www.democracynow.org/2008/3/18/winter_soldier_contd_us_vets_active" title="http://www.democracynow.org/2008/3/18/winter_soldier_contd_us_vets_active">http://www.democracynow.org/2008/3/18/winter_soldier_co...ctive</a><br />
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and check out YouTube, they're starting to put the vids up.<br />
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The corporate Media for the most part has ignored this event, despite the fact that the historical resonance and the link to the orginal Winter Soldier hearings is very newsworthy, but I guess the government learned a lot from the Vietnam era about keeping a lid on dissent. GI resistance in the Vietnam Warhttp://www.indymedia.ie/article/86771#comment2238572008-03-21T17:22:21+00:00GIAn article from libcom.org on the resistance by GIs to the Vietnam war.
History...An article from libcom.org on the resistance by GIs to the Vietnam war.<br />
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History of the widespread mutiny of US troops in Vietnam that brought the world's most powerful military machine to its knees.<br />
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The GI anti-war movement within the army was one of the decisive factors in ending the war.<br />
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An American soldier in a hospital explained how he was wounded: He said<br />
“I was told that the way to tell a hostile Vietnamese from a friendly Vietnamese was to shout ‘To hell with Ho Chi Minh!’ If he shoots, he’s unfriendly. So I saw this dude and yelled ‘To hell with Ho Chi Minh!’ and he yelled back, ‘To hell with President Johnson!’ We were shaking hands when a truck hit us.”<br />
- from 1,001 Ways to Beat the Draft, by Tuli Kupferburg.wishful thinkinghttp://www.indymedia.ie/article/86771#comment2238702008-03-21T20:20:17+00:00ScepticThose who are trying to make the Vietnam Iraq parallel are on a hiding to nothin...Those who are trying to make the Vietnam Iraq parallel are on a hiding to nothing. With Vietnam the very emotive factors that don’t apply to Iraq were the draft and the scale of causalities. Colour TV war coverage was new and very disturbing as were things like the Mai Lai massacre. People are used to these things now – they know they come with the territory and that wars are bloody and difficult. Before only those who had actually been to war knew of its full horror. There was also the Jane Fonda factor – many could view Uncle Ho as a kindly old nationalist forced into war but nobody in America except the very far fringe people could view Saddam as anything other than a very malevolent enemy (George Galloway excepted who had a personal financial reasons for his fawning over Saddam). Ditto for Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. The campuses were stridently antiwar in the 1960s – it is not so fashionable now – views are more nuanced. Figures from rock music were antiwar in the 1960s almost to a person. This is not the case now thought the majority may still be. In the 1960s to be young was almost to be antiwar in itself. Now there is less of a firm intergenerational divide. These things preclude too many parallels. People are likely to turn against the Iraqi war decisively only if it is clearly seen that the cost is too high or success is elusive. Not as a matter of principle or because they are persuaded by the likes of Cindy Sheehan. sir! no sir!http://www.indymedia.ie/article/86771#comment2238772008-03-21T21:24:10+00:00karl roenfanz ( rosey )k_rosey48 at hotmail dot comwe were in nam from the mid '50s to the mid '70s. the eisenhower-nixon team got ...we were in nam from the mid '50s to the mid '70s. the eisenhower-nixon team got us in. so for time of involvement the death rate is akin, the wounded rate is higher (improved medical treatment). the financial cost is about $2,000 per person in the u.s. (man,woman+child), and rising. not including the long term medical and family burdens. not including the homeless problem, veterans are only about 11% of the ADULT population, but, 25% of TOTAL homeless population! and the white-house (bush team) is trying to hide how the v.a. is treating the vets. the vets are getting screwed. can you imagine having a job where your on call 24 hours a day to get shot or killed? if your one of the lower flunkies and goof you get a federal conviction? but if your boss does, he gets told he might want to find employment elsewhere, but the record is secrete!A Winter's Talehttp://www.indymedia.ie/article/86771#comment2238922008-03-22T00:07:44+00:00Seán RyanExcellent article and interview.
There are many similarities between Vietnam an...Excellent article and interview.<br />
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There are many similarities between Vietnam and Iraq/Afghanistan.<br />
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The US went into all of them under false pretences.<br />
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The US assumed that superior firepower and technology would guarantee success, wrongly.<br />
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The US got mired in guerilla warfare in each case.<br />
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There was no exit strategy that could be called coherent in any of the cases.<br />
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The vets got shafted in all cases.<br />
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Civilian casulaties were extreme in all cases.<br />
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Despite being the agressive party in each conflict, the US played and continues to play the injured party in each case.<br />
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The US has used chemical weapons in all cases.<br />
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The US through its propaganda has claimed victory in each case until it had to admit defeat - it hasn't admitted defeat in either Iraq or Afghanistan yet, but the goal of victory has mutated into the goal of success, so victory is off the books. The parameters of success have yet to be defined.<br />
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In all cases the poor of America have been sent to kill the poor of another country, in order to liberate them.<br />
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In all cases pet journalists have pretended that things were going well when they weren't and aren't.<br />
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Surges were used to pretend that victory was on the way in all cases despite the fact that they had little or no effect.<br />
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In all cases the civilian population of the US were lulled into believing that the wars were legitimate - in all cases time has put a stop to that myth.<br />
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There's loads more similarities. I reckon however, most folks know this already. <br />
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The important similarity is that many troops tried to tell the real story in each case and have been shut down by the system. Even now the Winter Soldiers are all but unknown in the US. That's the shame, because if the truth were allowed to be shown, the US would learn.<br />
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Counterpunch: The Winter Soldier Hearings and Indy Mediahttp://www.indymedia.ie/article/86771#comment2243822008-03-27T18:59:08+00:00d'other's otherby SAM HUSSEINI
Jeff Cohen -- full disclosure: he used to be my boss and is a fr...by SAM HUSSEINI<br />
Jeff Cohen -- full disclosure: he used to be my boss and is a friend -- makes some very valid and important points in "Iraq Winter Soldier Hearings: Victory for Independent Media."<br />
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But there is another way of looking at this.<br />
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The fact that the mainstream paid so little attention to Winter Soldier -- as well countless other worthy stories -- is itself a failure of independent media to propel those stories into the mainstream.<br />
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<a href="http://www.counterpunch.org/husseini03262008.html" title="http://www.counterpunch.org/husseini03262008.html">http://www.counterpunch.org/husseini03262008.html</a>