US/NATO backed Kiev Neo-Nazi regime intended target Putin's plane but hit Malaysian Airline MH17 instead?

by curious Sat Jul 19, 2014 02:07

TEN QUESTIONS FOR THE UKRAINIAN AUTHORITIES

1. Immediately after the tragedy, the Ukrainian authorities, naturally, blamed it on the self-defense forces. What are these accusations based on?

2. Can Kiev explain in detail how it uses Buk missile launchers in the conflict zone? And why were these systems deployed there in the first place, seeing as the self-defense forces don’t have any planes?

3. Why are the Ukrainian authorities not doing anything to set up an international commission? When will such a commission begin its work?

4. Would the Ukrainian Armed Forces be willing to let international investigators see the inventory of their air-to-air and surface-to-air missiles, including those used in SAM launchers?

5. Will the international commission have access to tracking data from reliable sources regarding the movements of Ukrainian warplanes on the day of the tragedy?

6. Why did Ukrainian air traffic controllers allow the plane to deviate from the regular route to the north, towards “the anti-terrorist operation zone”?

7. Why was airspace over the warzone not closed for civilian flights, especially since the area was not entirely covered by radar navigation systems?

8. How can official Kiev comment on reports in the social media, allegedly by a Spanish air traffic controller who works in Ukraine, that there were two Ukrainian military planes flying alongside the Boeing 777 over Ukrainian territory?

9. Why did Ukraine’s Security Service start working with the recordings of communications between Ukrainian air traffic controllers and the Boeing crew and with the data storage systems from Ukrainian radars without waiting for international investigators?

10. What lessons has Ukraine learned from a similar incident in 2001, when a Russian Tu-154 crashed into the Black Sea? Back then, the Ukrainian authorities denied any involvement on the part of Ukraine’s Armed Forces until irrefutable evidence proved official Kiev to be guilty.

by fred Sun Jul 20, 2014 07:35

Tony Cartalucci would seem to agree with much of this analysis:

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.ie/2014/07/mh17-world-see-tragedy-us-sees-game.html

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.ie/2014/07/mh17-weathering-propaganda-firestorm.html

Some of the propaganda being pumped out relentlessly by the MSM rags is unbelievable:



Putin is not a moron and would not shoot himself in both feet this way.
Clearly those with most to gain from this were the US and it's poodles.

And it's not as if the US haven't shot down an airliner full of people before:
http://www.counterpunch.org/2008/07/11/the-shoot-down-of-iran-air-flight-655/

Or supported a terrorist who bombed a Cuban airliner full of people:
CIA-trained 'terrorist' in US court Accused of killing 73 in an airline bombing, Luis Posada Carriles charged with immigration violations, not terrorism.

by KM Sun Jul 20, 2014 22:24

What Happened to the Malaysian Airliner?

Paul Craig Roberts

Washington’s propaganda machine is in such high gear that we are in danger of losing
the facts that we do have.

One fact is that the separatists do not have the expensive Buk anti-aircraft missile system or the trained personnel to operate it.

Another fact is that the separatists have no incentive to shoot down an airliner and neither does Russia. Anyone can tell the difference between low-flying attack aircraft and an airliner at 33,000 feet.

The Ukrainians do have Buk anti-aircraft missile systems, and a Buk battery was operational in the region and deployed at a site from which it could have fired a missile at the airliner.

Just as the separatists and the Russian government have no incentive to shoot down an airliner, neither does the Ukrainian government nor, one would think, even the crazed extreme Ukrainian nationalists who have formed militias to take the fight against the separatists that the Ukrainian army is not keen to undertake–unless there was a plan to frame Russia.

One Russian general familiar with the weapon system offered his opinion that it was a mistake made by the Ukrainian military untrained in the weapon’s use. The general said that although Ukraine has a few of the weapons, Ukrainians have had no training in their use in the 23 years since Ukraine separated from Russia. The general thinks it was an accident due to incompetence.

by T Mon Jul 21, 2014 00:41

As expected now that many of the US/NATO false flag attacks like the chemical attack last year in Syria quickly fall apart because the motives are so obvious they are now responding to this and getting a bit more sophisticated and are manufacturing evidence. In the last few days the Western media have been touting so called tapes of conversations that allegedly prove the rebels downed the aircraft.

ITAR/TASS reports now a group of experts studied the tape and came to the conclusion that it was made up of numerous unrelated recordings. A tape posted by Ukrainian security services in the Internet and allegedly recording a talk between self-defense fighters about the destruction of a Malaysian airliner is a fake, experts said on Sunday.

A group of experts studied the tape and came to the conclusion that it was made up of numerous unrelated recordings.

“This audio recording is not an integral file and is made up of several fragments,” said Nikolai Popov, a reputable expert in sound and voice analysis. Specifically, the first of the three audio fragments, in which Gorlovka self-defense militia commander Igor Bezler talks about a plane shot down by the fighters, does not say anything about the type of the plane, the expert said.

At the same time, the name of the town of Yenakiyevo is clearly heard in the tape. However, the town is located about 100 km (60 miles) from the settlement of Snezhnoye where the Malaysian Boeing-777 airliner crashed.....

....The tape’s second fragment consists of three pieces but was presented as a single audio recording. However, a spectral and time analysis has showed that the dialog was cut into pieces and then assembled. Short pauses in the tape are very indicative: the audio file has preserved time marks which show that the dialog was assembled from various episodes, the expert said.

The tape’s linguistic analysis also shows that those who made the faked tape clearly didn’t have enough material and time, the expert said.

That is why, speech fragments can hardly correlate with each other in terms of their sense and the spectral picture of audio materials also differs, the expert said.

But the most indicative moment is that the audio tape clearly shows that it was created almost a day before the airliner crash, the expert said.

by fred Mon Jul 21, 2014 04:30

Irish columnist, Finian Cunningham has a good article on Press TV website:

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/07/20/372063/will-rus...lies/

by fred Wed Jul 23, 2014 04:31

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.ie/2014/07/mh17-show-tell....html

Some interesting evidence has come to light from russia. Facts as opposed to russophobic character assassinations of putin from every corrupt western media orifice masquerading as a news outlet pretending to do real journalism.

There is a presentation video by a Russian official, showing some of their actual intelligence on the event. Needless to say these actual facts are being ignored by most of the western media in favour of continued innuendo and blatant lies with no facts to back them up as they bay for more sanctions.

The UK has even used this opportunity to open an investigation into the death of Litvenenko.
I suggest while you are at it, you also open an investigation into the death of David Kelly Cameron you utter hypocrite

It's quite clear that nobody in the west wants to get to the real truth here, merely use this tragic event cynically to further their geopolitical plans to undermine Russia further. The whole campaign against Russia in the media is racist in the extreme in it's references to those "unpeople" residing in Donetsk, as they completely ignore the murderous activities of the right wing Svoboda and right sector military as they shell the houses of impoverished civilians.

In spite of all their shrieking and wailing outrage at the previous government police even just standing up to the nazi right sector US paid thugs in Maidan before the coup, now it seems burning people alive as in Odessa and shelling innocent civilians is just peachy and just not even worth reporting on. Because these are "unpeople".

Total racism. People should wake up and recognise this behaviour in western media and government statements for what it is.

We are thoroughly steeped in a media bath of western propaganda here, both regarding events in Ukraine and in Gaza. Tread carefully.

by fred Wed Jul 23, 2014 09:30

Mike whitney has some interesting analysis:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article39187.htm

Now the politicians and the media are at it again; trying to whip up war fever to get the public on board for another bloody intervention. Only this time, the target audience is not really the American people as much as it is Europeans. The real objective here, is to build support for additional economic sanctions as well as a deployment of NATO troops to Russia’s western border. Washington want to sabotage further economic integration between the EU and Russia so that it can control the flow of vital resources to the EU, crash the Russian economy, and establish a tollbooth between the continents. It’s all part of Washington’s “pivot” strategy that is critical to maintaining global hegemony throughout the 21st century.

< snip >

Can you see what’s going on? Washington doesn’t care about the facts. What matters to Obama and Co. is getting the Europeans on board (“ratcheting up pressure within Europe”) so they can gin up the sanctions, shut off Russian gas, deprive Putin of a vital source of revenue, and set up shop (NATO bases) in Eurasia.” Whether US Intel agencies were involved in the missile attack or not doesn’t change the fact that Washington clearly benefits from the tragedy.

Keep in mind, that the reason Putin hasn’t deployed Russian troops to stop the violence in east Ukraine is because the EU is his biggest trading partner and he doesn’t want to do anything that will put the kibosh on their business dealings. Russia needs Europe just like Europe needs Russia. They’re a perfect fit, which is why Washington has concocted this goofy plan to throw a wrench in the works. It’s because Washington wants to be the Kingfish in Eurasia and control the continents’ resources as well as the growth of regional economies. To achieve that objective, they need to convince EU leaders and people that Putin is a reckless aggressor who can’t be trusted. That’s why Kiev has launched one provocation after another since the legitimate Ukrainian government (Viktor Yanukovych) was ousted in late February and replaced with by a US-backed junta government. Most of the provocations have gone unreported in the western media, although they have regularly involved violations of international law and crimes against humanity, like the use of incendiary “phosphorous” ordnance on June, 12 in Slavyansk, or the bombing of a kindergarten in Slavyansk or the deliberate bombing of hospitals in east Ukraine, or the killing of journalists or the firing of mortar rounds across the border into Russia or the massacre at Odessa where 42 people were burned to death in a fire at the Trade Unions Building that was started by pro-junta hooligans and neo Nazis. None of these were reported in the western media where the coverage is tailored to advance the corporate-state agenda.

Paul craig roberts offers some further analysis here:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article39190.htm

The Russian government continues to release facts, including satellite photos showing the presence of Ukrainian Buk anti-aircraft missiles in locations from which the airliner could have been brought down by the missile system and documentation that a Ukrainian SU-25 fighter jet rapidly approached the Malaysian airliner prior to its downing. The head of the Operations Directorate of Russian military headquarters said at a Moscow press conference today (July 21) that the presence of the Ukrainian military jet is confirmed by the Rostov monitoring center.

The Russian Defense Ministry pointed out that at the moment of destruction of MH-17 an American satellite was flying over the area. The Russian government urges Washington to make available the photos and data captured by the satellite.

President Putin has repeatedly stressed that the investigation of MH-17 requires “a fully representative group of experts to be working at the site under the guidance of the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO).” Putin’s call for an independent expert examination by ICAO does not sound like a person with anything to hide.

Turning to Washington Putin stated: “In the meantime, no one [not even the “exceptional nation”] has the right to use this tragedy to achieve their narrowly selfish political goals.”

Putin reminded Washington: “We repeatedly called upon all conflicting sides to stop the bloodshed immediately and to sit down at the negotiating table. I can say with confidence that if military operations were not resumed [by Kiev] on June 28 in eastern Ukraine, this tragedy wouldn’t have happened.”

What is the American response?

Lies and insinuations.

Yesterday (July 20) the US Secretary of State, John Kerry confirmed that pro-Russian separatists were involved in the downing of the Malaysian airliner and said that it was “pretty clear” that Russia was involved. Here are Kerry’s words: “It’s pretty clear that this is a system that was transferred from Russia into the hands of separatists. We know with confidence, with confidence, that the Ukrainians did not have such a system anywhere near the vicinity at that point and time, so it obviously points a very clear finger at the separatists.”

Kerry’s statement is just another of the endless lies told by US secretaries of state in the 21st century. Who can forget Colin Powell’s package of lies delivered to the UN about Saddam Hussein’s “weapons of mass destruction” or Kerry’s lie repeated endlessly that Assad “used chemical weapons against his own people” or the endless lies about “Iranian nukes”?

Remember that Kerry on a number of occasions stated that the US had proof that Assad crossed the “red line” by using chemical weapons. However, Kerry was never able to back up his statements with evidence. The US had no evidence to give the British prime minister whose effort to have Parliament approve Britain’s participation with Washington in a military attack on Syria was voted down. Parliament told the prime minister, “no evidence, no war.”

Again here is Kerry declaring “confidence” in statements that are directly contradicted by the Russian satellite photos and endless eye witnesses on the ground.

Why doesn’t Washington release its photos from its satellite?

by Jack Wed Jul 23, 2014 16:19

You're right Fred, most of the mainstream media is just brainwashing pumped into people's houses repeated over and over and over again. As long as they can give the impression that all right thinking people should believe one version of events then it gives them room to do the things they want. These people are so twisted that they will use the deaths of the plane passengers as a way to demonise Putin and make some more moves on the global chessboard.

How to protect yourself from psychopaths
www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PIz1Mm6ur8

by KM Thu Jul 24, 2014 20:22

US Intelligence: No Evidence Russia Did It

Paul Craig Roberts


After days of placing hostile blame for the downing of the Malaysian airliner on Russia, the White House permitted US intelligence officials to tell reporters that there is no evidence of the Russian government’s involvement.

Obviously, the US satellite photos do not support the Obama regime’s lies. If the White House had any evidence of Russian complicity, it would have released it to great fanfare days ago.

We are fortunate that the analytical side of the CIA, in contrast with the black ops side, retains analysts with integrity even after the purge of the agency ordered by Dick Cheney. Incensed that the CIA did not immediately fall in line with all of the Bush regime’s war lies, Cheney had the agency purged. The black ops side of the agency is a different story. Many believe that it should be defunded and abolished as this part of the CIA operates in violation of statutory US law.

Don’t hold your breath until Washington abolishes black-ops operations or the Obama regime apologizes to the Russian government for the unfounded accusations and insinuations leveled by the White House at Russia.

Despite this admission by US intelligence officials, the propaganda ministry is already at work to undermine the admission. The intelligence officials themselves claim that Russia is, perhaps, indirectly responsible, because Russia “created the conditions” that caused Kiev to attack the separatists.

by fred Fri Jul 25, 2014 16:20

He has a most interesting piece of analysis here. A must read:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/washington-is-escalating-t...93205

by KM Sat Jul 26, 2014 22:00

Does Russia (And Humanity) Have A Future?

Europe is complicit in its own demise

Paul Craig Roberts

The Russian government has finally realized that it has no Western “partners,” and is complaining bitterly about the propagandistic lies and disinformation issued without any evidence whatsoever against the Russian government by Washington, its European vassals, and presstitute media.

Perhaps the Russian government thought that only Iraq, Libya, Syria, China, and Edward Snowden would be subjected to Washington’s lies and demonization.

It was obvious enough that Russia would be next.

The Russian government and Europe need to look beyond Washington’s propaganda, because the reality is much worst.

NATO commander General Breedlove and Senate bill 2277 clearly indicate that Washington is organizing itself and Europe for war against Russia (see my previously posted column).

Europe is reluctant to agree with Washington to put Ukraine in NATO. Europeans understand that if Washington or its stooges in Kiev cause a war with Russia Europe will be the first casualty. Washington finds its vassals’ noncompliance tiresome. Remember Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland’s “fuck the EU.” And that is just what Washington is about to do.

by fred Sun Jul 27, 2014 01:57

Here is Putin's perspective from the horses mouth:
http://eng.kremlin.ru/transcripts/22714

I think he sounds like a pretty copped on rational geopolitical actor here and a safe pair of hands
Unlike some of the dangerous buffoons in other governments I could mention

by amused Wed Jul 30, 2014 21:30

Putin's economic advisor reveals the massive militarization of Ukraine, intended not only to crush Donbass, but to re-take Crimea, and be the puppets to start another world war for further consolidation of the US hegemony over Eurasia.

About Sergei Glazyev.

Sergei Glazyev, formerly a deputy of the State Duma, was appointed in 2012 as the economic advisor to the President on economic integration in the framework of the Customs Union.

Caption: Video Id: nWT5HM_NMlI Type: Youtube Video
Embedded video Youtube Video

by East Galway Resident Thu Jul 31, 2014 09:52

"They're destroying hospitals, kindergartens, schools ..."

The excerpt just above has come from: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWT5HM_NMlI

"Peaceful and lawful "regime change" in the Republic (so called sometimes) of the United States of America is now long overdue, and DESPERATELY needed in the best interests of "humanity as a whole", and of "Life on Earth" generally?"

Related Search Engine List:
"Pistols for two Rostov, and coffee for one ..."
http://tinyurl.com/p4dbo8l

by fred Sat Aug 02, 2014 11:50

Post here quotes German pilot and air technology expert Peter Haisenko and suggests MH17 shot down by another aircraft:

http://hat4uk.wordpress.com/2014/07/28/new-mh17-sensati...jets/

if you look at the image of
Cockpit-Fragments, this picture is certainly shocking.
Entry And Exit holes from bullets in the area of the Cockpit.
This is not speculation, but analysis of clear facts: the cockpit
shows clear evidence of bullet holes. You can see the entry holes and
some exit points. The edges of the bullet holes are bent inwards,
these are much smaller and round in shape. A 30mm calibre. The exit
holes are less well formed and the edges are torn outwards.
Furthermore it is visible that the exit holes have torn the double
aluminium skin and bent them outwards. That is to say, splinters from
inside the cockpit blew through the outside of the cabin. The open
rivets have also been bent outwards….There is only one conclusion
one can make, and that is that this: the aircraft was not hit by a missile.
The damage to the aircraft is exclusively in the cockpit area….

Russia has published radar data that a
Ukranian SU 25 was close to MH 017. this corresponds with Spanish air
traffic control that two Ukranian fighter aircraft were in direct
contact with MH 017. Examine the weaponry of the SU 25: it is fitted
out with a 30mm cannon Type GSch-302 /AO-17A, with 250 rounds of
splintering exploding bullets on a belt – shrapnel rounds. The cockpit
of MH 017 was hit from TWO sides, as there are entry and exit holes on
the same side….’

Personally I don't believe the plane was downed by 30mm cannon of an SU25, but by an explosion or a missile of some sort, be it air to air or BUK.

However there is some interesting discussion in the comments about what exactly could have caused the marks on the wreckage etc

by Crazy Cat Sat Aug 02, 2014 13:56

A wee word from Pepe Escobar:

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/CEN-02-010814....html

by East Galway Resident Sun Aug 03, 2014 12:24

"The fascist coup they engineered in Ukraine is only the most recent example."

"They also ensure that the national security state, busy killing people in 130 countries, acts in the exclusive interest of transnational capital."

The above excerpts are from the following "Veterans Today" www location:
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/07/31/the-161-bankers...tmail

Related Internet Search Engine List:
"Banksters, Human Rights Ireland ..."
http://tinyurl.com/keevhtd

by East Galway Resident Wed Aug 06, 2014 17:04

"Dr. Peter Phillips recently delivered a keynote address at the 2014 Fellowship of Reconciliation’s event in celebration of their 100th anniversary. The talk was given over the July 4th weekend at the Seabeck Conference Center, Seabeck Washington (http://forseabeck.org/).  Phillips discussed the Transnational Corporate Class, US NATO Empire, capitalism, and corporate media propaganda. Phillips, former director of Project Censored from 1996-2010, is professor of sociology at Sonoma State, president of the Media Freedom Foundation/Project Censored, and co-host of the Project Censored Show on KPFA Pacifica Radio."

The above excerpt, which involves a one hour and nine minute associated video, has come from:
http://www.projectcensored.org/2014-fellowship-reconcil...lips/

Celebrating FOR's (Fellowship of Reconciliation's) 100th year of bringing peace and justice to a broken world.
(July 3-6, 2014, Seabeck Conference Center, Seabeck Washington)

Related Internet Search Engine Link:
"Government of the Money Power Psychopaths, by the Money Power Psychopaths, for the Money Power Psychopaths ..."
http://tinyurl.com/p85yn93

by KM Thu Aug 07, 2014 13:01

US missile cruiser Vella Gulf has entered the Black Sea in what the American Navy described as a move to "to promote peace and stability in the region." Moscow has considered any such acts as “offensive.” ...

The multi-mission cruiser Vella Gulf is 173 meters long, carries up to 400 crewmembers aboard and can achieve a speed of over 30 knots. The vessel’s weapons include SM-2 surface-to-air missiles, Harpoon anti-ship missiles, Tomahawk cruise missiles, torpedoes, Phalanx Close-in Weapons Systems for self-defense against aircraft and missiles, and five-inch, rapid fire guns.

Vladimir Putin has promised Russia will respond to NATO’s expansion towards its borders.

“No matter what our Western counterparts tell us, we can see what’s going on," Putin said at an emergency Security Council meeting in late July. "As it stands, NATO is blatantly building up its forces in Eastern Europe, including the Black Sea and the Baltic Sea areas. Its operational and combat training activities are gaining in scale.”

Putin stated that NATO’s military build-up near Russia’s border is not just for defense, but is an “offensive weapon” and an “element of the US offensive system deployed outside the mainland.”

by T Thu Sep 04, 2014 11:45

The claim that the whereabouts of this claim was unknown is simply not believable because it turns out that besides the remote engine monitoring software embedded in the Rolls-Royce engine and which transmits its data every 30 mins via satellite back to it's global engine health monitoring center in Derby, UK, the plane also had on board device known as the Boeing Uninterruptible Autopilot (Fly-By-Wire remote control) that has supposedly been equipped in all Boeing planes since 1995, according to Field McConnell, a retired 35 year Delta pilot:

“This information was apparently not released until March of 2007, following a subsequent lawsuit by McConnell. The modification was reported to the FAA, NTSB and ALPA ( airline pilots association). According to McConnell’s documents, Boeing is said to have stated that by end of 2009 all Boeing planes would be fitted with the BUAP - making them impossible to manually hijack within the plane but susceptible to remote control by the military, according the flight veteran.”

by anon Sun Oct 19, 2014 23:54

The title says it all. They are not fooled. Maybe fooled once but not twice. Given the article came from the state press then that is really putting it out there.

Here's some key parts from a report carried by WSWS on the New Strait Times newspaper.

The New Straits Times article, titled “US analysts conclude MH17 downed by aircraft,” lays out evidence that Ukrainian fighter aircraft attacked the jetliner with first a missile, then with bursts of 30-millimeter machine gun fire from both sides of MH17. The Russian army has already presented detailed radar and satellite data showing a Ukrainian Sukhoi-25 fighter jet tailing MH17 shortly before the jetliner crashed.
.....
It cited “experts who had said that the photographs of the blast fragmentation patterns on the fuselage of the airliner showed two distinct shapes—the shredding pattern associated with a warhead packed with ‘flechettes,’ and the more uniform, round-type penetration holes consistent with that of cannon rounds.”
.....
The New Straits Times cited several sources to substantiate its position. One was testimony by a Canadian-Ukrainian monitor for the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE), Michael Bociurkiw—one of the first investigators to arrive at the crash site. Speaking to the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation on July 29, Bociurkiw said: “There have been two or three pieces of fuselage that have been really pockmarked with what almost looks like machine gun fire; very, very strong machine gun fire.”
....
Parry indicated that sections of the US intelligence apparatus have concluded that US secretary of state John Kerry’s claims that pro-Russian forces shot down the plane are lies.

“Only three days after the crash, Secretary of State Kerry did the rounds of the Sunday talk shows making what he deemed an ‘extraordinary circumstantial’ case supposedly proving that the rebels carried out the shoot-down with missiles provided by Russia. He acknowledged that the US government was ‘not drawing the final conclusion here, but there is a lot that points at the need for Russia to be responsible,’ ” Parry wrote. “By then, I was already being told that the US intelligence community lacked any satellite imagery supporting Kerry’s allegations, and that the only Buk missile system in that part of Ukraine appeared to be under the control of the Ukrainian military.”

by anon Fri Dec 04, 2020 14:40

The MH17 and the Southern Cauldron

Extensive analysis at @ http://thesaker.is/mh17-and-the-southern-cauldron/