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Bin Tax to be voted on - place your money

category dublin | bin tax / household tax / water tax | opinion/analysis author Friday November 26, 2004 03:47author by Ivan Yates boy Report this post to the editors

Odds on outcome of bin tax estimates vote

1/2 deferred for a week or more
3/1 passed with amendment that removes bin tax - (5/1 amendment is govt rates, 10/1 hotel room tax, 15/1 others)
4/1 passed with only Independents and SF against
4/1 passed: Ind, SF, some labour against (1/2 on Labour use of abstentions)
4/1 passed: Ind, some labour, some SF against (1/7 on SF use of abstentions)
10/1 defeated - labour, sf, ind against
5/1 defeated - labour, ind, SF and some FF / FG against
50/1 defeated - FF solid against
100/1 defeated - some FG against and FF solid against

Like two flies on a wall, it has a certain fascination but ultimate pointlessness about it all..

author by Indy Council Corrpublication date Fri Nov 26, 2004 11:00author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Amendments that remove the Bin Tax are not an option. John Fitzgerald was specifically asked during the creation of the Estimates if money could be raised from elsewhere to cover the cost of the removal of Charges, would he remove them. He refused to do so saying, inaccurately as it happens, that the legislation required him to do so.

Since the Manager has absolute power in relation to the impostion of Charges and the level they should be at, it's not going to be removed. It's legally impossible without the Manager's approval and he's hardly likely to give it.

The other suggestions, Government Rates and a Hotel Bed Tax, would require Government legislation, amending the Valuation Act of 2001 for the first (Interesting to note that people rarely comment on the fact that houses of worship are also exempt from rates. There are in fact 19 different categories, not including State buildings, exempt from rates.) and the introduction of legislation to allow for the latter.

And the chances of them passing on Monday are a lot worse than 1/2. I think everyone would be shocked if they went through.

author by Barney Eastwoodpublication date Fri Nov 26, 2004 11:12author address author phone Report this post to the editors

What odds on my prediction - don't see it outlined.
Passed with all Indepedents & SF against. And some FG & Labour against but not enough to defeat it.

author by Paddy Powder-kegpublication date Fri Nov 26, 2004 18:43author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I think it will go to two or three rounds!

Round 1. SF, Independents, Labour and some FG/FF mavericks plus abstentions lead to a defeat of the Estimates on the first vote.
Round 2. It will go down to wire, some playacting all around, Manager will reduce bin charge/increase waiver elligibility etc (Which is why he set them so high in the first instance), then FF, FG and most of Labour will combine to adopt estimates.
This will allow the Labour cllrs. for Crumlin, cabra, Finglas etc who are under pressure from the strong campaigns to vote against and pose as defenders of the working class etc. I have insider info from the LP that this is the strategy!

author by Council watcherpublication date Fri Nov 26, 2004 20:04author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Paddy Power is correct.

Round 1 will be all SF, all Labour and all Indos against. FGers against will be Bill Tormley, Terence Flanagan and Niamh Cosgrave. Most of FF will also vote against.

After "lenghty negotiations" the fixed rate part will be dropped, labour will claim victory, vote for the estimates with all of FG (with the exception of Tormley). FF will abstain.

final results;

FOR: 23
AGAINST: 18
ABSTAIN: 11

author by Finglas Flyerpublication date Sat Nov 27, 2004 01:05author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Tormeys populist break on this issue is evidence of what a good solidly grounded campaign can achieve, Tormey got elected despite his new FG suit on the basis of pushing an'independent' image. Now he's feeling the pressure as is Labours Mary Murphy. This is because the Finglas Anti Bin Tax Campaign has kept working through thick and thin, leafleting, organising public meetings, sending out presss releases etc etc. One of the reasons for this is that its led by a very broad and dedicated committee with members of SF, SP and the ISN as well as non aligned people working together, putting the interests of the campaign, not their own organisations, first. At the last public meeting, both Tormey and Murphy really showed the pressure they were under, engaging in slagging matches with members of the audience. Of the other two cllrs, Dessie Ellis of SF has strongly supported the campaign and Liam kelly of FF openly supports the Bin tax.

author by .........publication date Tue Nov 30, 2004 01:57author address author phone Report this post to the editors

my god how wrong we all were. They were passed 32 to 15 - a walkover and on night one.

This to me shows how the councillors view the anti bin -tax campaign - they didn't even have the respect to drag out the estimates for the three weeks.

Although this reflects more on the Labour party than the real left in the country, does it not suggest how impotent and ineffectual we are.

They also let SF off easily by not forcing the vote to the wire and therefore pressurising them to show there true colours.

author by joe costellopublication date Tue Nov 30, 2004 10:34author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Don't be despondent, it doesn't matter whether the vote went against us after one meeting or 50 meetings, the outcome was always going to be the same. The play acting of the past years didn't make a difference in the end. This battle was always going to be won or lost on the streets. The council vote and the legal cases were just tactical, we never expected either to win but they did expose the legal system, the police and the labour party for what they are. Remember over 28,000 households in Dublin haven't paid a penny. The battle continues..........

author by ABTApublication date Tue Nov 30, 2004 10:35author address author phone Report this post to the editors

It's not over yet.

author by observerpublication date Tue Nov 30, 2004 11:08author address author phone Report this post to the editors

#1 by - what's this crap about "letting SF off the hook" ? Get your head out of your arse and learn the facts. SF have consistently voted against the charges in DUblin.

#2 Paddy Power. I wish you were a bookie! You'd be wiped out in a week. Your analysis is about as accurate as a blind man with a cross bow.

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