West Bank to be Ethnically Cleansed (in stages)

by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite party Tue Jun 21, 2011 14:49

My what an appetite.

Perhaps a fresh phosphorescent infant flambe from our cast-lead special?

by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite party Tue Jun 21, 2011 14:28

.. since, thanks to the invisible hand of AIPAC, they own both houses of the US congress.

Hillary has Obama house-trained to mouth the requisite platitudes while doing the necessary NATO shuffle, and given the NATO global brolly Jahweh is well and truly reigning from cloud nine, and all's ultra-right with their world.

Would Sir prefer cluster, drone-delivered, or humanitarian, depleted-U democracy with his New World Order?

Fresh Arab-Spring rollbacks?No prob, though it may take a little longer; our chef is rather busy at the moment, what with the Greece-spill on his shirt-front.

Dont make me laugh. The collateral damage is already in enough stitches.

by Anti-Semanticism Fri Jun 10, 2011 17:47

Klavan : One-State Solution - Give the Middle East to the Jews!

http://wejew.com/media/11292/Klavan_One-State_Solution_...Jews/

by Anti-Semanticist Mon Jun 06, 2011 21:31

Israel’s occupation of Palestinian territory is a violation of no less than three international legal statutes,

the United Nations charter itself,

The Hague Agreement of 1907 and the

Geneva Convention of 1949,

all of which forbid an occupying power from moving civilian populations into occupied land. However, whenever serious criticism of the occupation arises both within Israel and abroad, the state is able to claim that its presence in the territories is only about protecting Israeli civilians from security risks. Nothing more.

as can be seen from Justice Miriam Ben-Porat's statement posted in a comment above :

“I was bothered by the question whether the term ‘permanent’ settlement indicates an intention to deny the land forever, but I have reached the conclusion that the adjective ‘permanent’ should be seen as a relative concept.”

it is obvious that Israel has always intended it's illegal occupation of Palestinian territory be seen merely as a 'temporary security' measure rather than the fully intended permanent undeniably ILLEGAL annexation it is.

Irrespective of their public pronouncements on the matter of illegally steal Palestinian land, and irrespective of any ostensible perceived difference between various shades of political opinion in Israel, every Israeli government, since 1967, both "left-wing" and "right-wing", has increased ILLEGAL colonisation of land NOT BELONGING TO ISRAEL.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, in his recent defiant but well received speech to the United States Congress, made it clear that he doesn’t see things this way. He argued instead that Israel “will not return to the indefensible lines of 1967.”

No one has managed to make an intelligible argument as to why the 67 lines are in some way 'indefensible', why they are somehow less defensible than some other borders which may be proposed.

This is typical of the Zionist method. they merely invent some ridiculous nonsense and then keep repeating it loudly and incessantly. No appeal to reason, morality, sanity etc ever seems to get through to them. when cornered they usually drag out some tired old reference to some imagined 'biblical' past, or wrap themselves in their trusty little 'holocaust' shield which they seem to think will ward-off all criticism. when both of those fail, as they so increasingly do these days, they simply resort to screaming 'Anti-Semite' as often and as loudly as possible.

They seem to think that doing all of the above will somehow magically grant them some sort of right to break International laws whenever they desire. All this while petulantly demanding that others respect some other imaginary 'right' of theirs.

Their problem is of course that more and more people are wising-up to their nonsense. And so they become more and more hysterical in their condemnation of all that disagree with them, not having learned that if something doesn't work, simply doing more of that thing that doesn't work is not a rational or sane solution- but then Zionism itself is not a particularly sane political philosophy, incorporating as it does some of the most reprehensible aspects of 1930's fascism

by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite party Sat Jun 04, 2011 18:13

You are right. The West bank is being ethnically cleansed by stealth.

Of Palestinians by Israeli settlers.

As is Gaza, by destruction of its infrastructure and collective punishment for DELIBERATELY PROVOKED retaliation to Israeli crimes against a defenceless civilian population.

The shame is that the world which declared 'never again' after Nazi similar crimes against European Jews is collaborating with Zion's atrocities. And that the Zionists, who collaborated with the Final Solution to lever their lunatic project into Palestine, are again deceiving israelis into their fascistic future.

You are right as they come. Ultra right, just like the Contras you draw your name from. Shalom.

by me Sat Jun 04, 2011 00:25

Obviously only a Jew-hater would have any objection to their Jewish neighbours bulldozing crops just before harvest-time -

Israeli forces bulldoze crops in northern Gaza during harvest period

http://uruknet.com/?p=m78311&hd=&size=1&l=e

Israeli Occupation Forces have begun bulldozing agricultural crops in the north of the Gaza Strip just shortly before they were due to be harvested by farmers.

Farmers and eyewitnesses told Quds Press that just as farmers were preparing to harvest their annual wheat and barley crop near the border in the north of the Gaza Strip, Israeli forces brought in machinery and bulldozed the crops.

Eyewitnesses added that the bulldozing continued for days and a depth of 500 meters of private farm land to the East of the town of Jabalya was cleared. They also added that this was an annual occurrence.

by HB Fri Jun 03, 2011 23:32

The entire occupation in 140 characters

In 1978, Taufic Ayoub, a Palestinian who had his land near Ramallah confiscated by the IDF “for security reasons,” learned of the intention to establish on his property not a military camp, but a civilian settlement for Jews.

These were the early days of the settlement project, and it wasn’t that clear where things were heading. So Ayoub (and other land owners) filed a petition to the Israeli Supreme Court, claiming that land that was taken for temporary military purpose by the occupation authorities could not be used for permanent civilian projects.

The court ruled against the Palestinians.- http://www.hamoked.org.il/items/3860.htm

Justice Miriam Ben-Porat, later Israel’s State Comptroller, wrote :

“I was bothered by the question whether the term ‘permanent’ settlement indicates an intention to deny the land forever, but I have reached the conclusion that the adjective ‘permanent’ should be seen as a relative concept.”

Ben-Porat sums up the entire legal pretext for the occupation in 141 Hebrew characters,

I guess that today she would have agreed to settle for 140, for Twitter.

by HB Fri Jun 03, 2011 19:37

The pre-state Israeli forces were far greater in number and far better equipped than the combined forces of the "Goliath" Arab armies. This is another myth in the Zionist narrative. They want you to believe that the 5 Arab armies had genocidal intentions and wanted to destroy Israel. Why else would you send 5 armies against one? But if the 13 nation-states of the Caribbean attacked the United States we'd hardly consider the United States the 'David' facing a Caribbean Goliath. But the Zionist narrative wants to trick you with a faulty numbers game. In reality, the pre-state Israel forces were greater in numbers and far superior in training than the combined forces of the infamous 5 Arab Armies. Conveniently, the New York Times reported in an article from Feb. 29th, 1948 titled 'The Army Called 'Haganah' : http://www.thejerusalemfund.org/ht/a/GetDocumentAction/.../2928

Nobody knows its full strength, let alone its membership rolls. But it is no amateur army. It has a nucleus of 30,000 men who served in the British forces. Three thousand of them served in the RAF, including more than forty pilots. More than 300 served in the Commandos and 4,000 in the Jewish Brigade in action in Italy. The British estimate Haganah's active membership at anywhere from 60,000 to 80,000.

David Ben Gurion's war diary notes that at every stage of the war Zionist troops outnumbered combined Arab armies. The Arab armies were disorganized having little combat experience prior to this with the exception of some of the Jordanian forces. Most Arab soldiers were using outdated arms from WWI or earlier which were inferior to the Zionist armies' WWII arms and artillery. These are facts as told to people by the New York Times back then,

The depopulation of Palestine of its native inhabitants which took place from 1947-49 was commemorated this weekend and it was marked by Israel with the enforcement of ethnic cleansing. Palestinians seeking to return were shot down in the process - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekgkuAaTjPg&feature=yout...xpert"

One reason that the Nakba is marked when the state of Israel was created is because the creation of this state meant that a political force would exist to enforce the exile of Palestinian refugees. 63 years later, we are reminded that that fear was very well founded.

by FACTS Fri Jun 03, 2011 19:31

Masses of Palestinian refugees were created before one Arab soldier 'attacked' the new state of Israel.

In one story from March, 20th, 1947, the New York Times actually addressed the pre-1948 situation as one of colonization and describes it rather appropriately.

I urge honest object people, or even dishonest ones such as Contrarian, to read the whole article, titled "Palestine Jews Minimize Arabs: Sure of Superiority, Settlers Feel They Can Win Natives By Reason or Force - http://www.thejerusalemfund.org/ht/a/GetDocumentAction/...29282 (PDF)

here's an excerpt:

Whatever the degree of their superiority complex, however, the Jews are certainly confident of their ability to bring the Arabs to terms -- by persuasion if possible, by might if necessary. The program of the largest terrorist group, the Irgun Zvai Leumi, is to evacuate the British forces from Palestine and declare a Zionist state west of the Jordan, and "we will take care of the Arabs."

such behaviour from the racist Zionists is their hallmark for the last 63 years at least

by FACTS Fri Jun 03, 2011 19:14

Israel, as any semi-literate person must be aware attacked Egypt on June 4 1967 and has been in illegal occupation of the West Bank and Gaza ever since.In 1973 Egypt and Syria attacked Israeli occupation forces in the Sinai and Golan-Israel’s supposedly heroic surrounding of the Egyptian 3rd Army was achieved by continuing to advance on and kill Egyptian troops standing down in compliance with the cease-fire agreement for 3 days after that cessation of hostilities was confirmed by all belligerents including Israel.Hezbollah learned that lesson very well and refused a cease-fire request by the Israelis as they were driven out of Lebanon in 2000.Hows that for easily verifiable historical fact as opposed to tired repetition of Zionist myths.

archival document showing Haganah’s (Zionist Terrorists) Plan D, of 10 March 1948, that was necessary to force a look at the reasons for Arab flight. Plan D gave permission to the Haganah(Zionist Terrorists) to fight in parts of Palestine that had been assigned to the Arabs, to expel the villagers and to raze their villages. The leadership of the the Zionists made a momentous decision when they decided to fight beyond the borders assigned to them in UN Res. 181 and try to gain more territory by force.

THEY HAD A BARE MAJORITY IN THE UN -PROPOSED “JEWISH STATE” (1,000 more Jews than Arabs, if the Bedouin had been counted).

The decision to try to enlarge the territory granted the 'Jewish' state under UN 181 ensured that ethnic-cleansing would occur - for there was no way to have a Jewish Majority on expanded territory without expelling the rightful legal owners.

since 1848 the Jewish state has always sought to steal the territory of it's neighbours, even going so far as to start numerous wars in order to achieve this reprehensible goal

by me Fri Jun 03, 2011 18:59

Months BEFORE UN Resolution 181 was adopted Zionist Jewish Terrorist Groups had started attacking innocent Palestinians in their homes. #This is a matter of historical FACT - so you can pretend the conflict started in Nov 1947 if you want but I'll just point out that from as early as May 1947 Zionist Terrorists had commenced a campaign of terror aimed at terrorising innocent Palestinians out of their homes and villages - this was as I said months before any Arab armies counter-attacked the Zionist terrorists.

Israeli Defence Force documents recently discovered reveal that 391,000 Palestinians had been driven from their homes before the Arab League took action in May of 1948. By Israel’s own estimate, 73% of these expulsions were a result of direct Israeli actions.
That “7 Arab Nations attacked” unprovoked is quite simply a myth.

Aharon Cohen, leader of the Mapam’s Arab department wrote a memorandum called: “Our Arab Policy in the Midst of the War”, 10 May. In his notes for the memorandum, penned 6 May 1948, he wrote: “a deliberate eviction [of the Arabs] is taking place..

A document found in 1985 in the papers of Aharon Cohen called “The Emigration of the Arabs of Palestine in the Period 1/12/1947/- 1/6/1948″ …. produced by Israeli Defence Forces Intelligence Service states that 391,000 Palestinians were driven from their homes.
The report concludes: “It is possible to say that at least 55% of the total of the exodus was caused by our [Haganah / IDF] operations and by their influence”. In addition, “the effects of the operations of dissident Jewish organizations ‘directly [caused] some 15 percent…of the emigration’.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_and_After#The_Causes_..._1948

Note that this exodus began the day after Resolution 181 (Partition). From this it is obvious that the Zionist Terroists did not accept Resolution 181 which clearly states in Chapter 2:

“No expropriation of land owned by an Arab in the Jewish State (by a Jew in the Arab State)(4) shall be allowed except for public purposes. In all cases of expropriation full compensation as fixed by the Supreme Court shall be paid previous to dispossession. “

But irrespective of whether or not Gov'ts of Israel Syria, Jordan Egypt etc etc rejected UN-181, it STILL would not entitle Israel to steal so much as one inch of Palestinian land.

Israel is not entitled to any land set aside for a Palestinian State, under UN 181, the resolution that gave the Zionist State it's own legality

Irrespective of who won or lost what war- there is no section of International law which would entitle anyone to steal land from another in these circumstances. International law specifically FORBIDS the annexation of territory in such circumstances.

So you can whinge as much as you like, you can erect as many strawman-arguments as you like but it still won't make legal any of the actions of the Zionist State against Palestinian land-holders

One can in fact accurately gauge the weakness of someones argument by the amount of strawman-arguments he/she uses - and you have used many so far

The point about Israel holding territory because it was attacked is an absolute lie. Israel holds the West Bank and East Jerusalem because it initiated the 1967 war. Much of the pre-1967 territory was also taken by war. In fact, prior to 1948 Jews were a minority in the area now considered Israel, they became a majority by terrorizing most of the majority population into leaving.

By conducting a few fairly large-scale mass murders, by ordering people to leave or die. According to one report, when captive defenders of the village of Tira who were taken prisoner by the Zionist forces asked for water, they were instead given gasoline and burned to death.

This was how Israel achieved a Jewish majority and how Israel was established.

As to other distortions, to say that Netanyahu is willing to give back territory it thinks Israel has a claim to, as you have repeatedly implied, is doublespeak – Israel has no right under international law to any of the lands it conquered by war in 1967, whatever you or Netanyahu thinks.

by contrarian Fri Jun 03, 2011 18:14

It is deeply ironic that you rely on UN resolution 181 as the Palestinians and EVERY Arab nation resoundingly rejected it. On 30th nov 1947, the day after it was adopted, Palestinian gunman killed 5 jewish passengers in an attack on a bus. (an all too familiar Palestinian tactic) Two more Jews were killed in separate attacks, these seven becoming the first casualties of the conflict. Separately, jews were attacked in other Arab nations with over 80 murdered in Aden alone. Further killings took place in Egypt and Syria. There followed reprisals by the Irgun and the Stern gang but the initial violence came from the Palestinians who were determined to stop the emergence of ANY Jewish state. The nascent Israeli state was entitled to take military action to secure its existence including advances on areas from which its population was under attack. Thus, having rejected 181, the Palestinians found that their boundaries werè settled by military action instead. Thats what tends to happens when you start a war and lose it. Its no more a theft of land than German, Italian, Finnish, Hungarian territorial losses following their defeat in WW2 three years earlier. As for your zionism=racism claim, Zionism is merely the establishment of a jewish state. If international law mandates the setting up of a jewish state, via UN 181, then by your logic, international law itself must be racist! Many states self-describe is Islamic states, what's inherently wrong with a jewish state?

by me Fri Jun 03, 2011 15:52

he's a Zio-racist** - they don't do 'argue honestly' - if they did they know they'd lose any sane normal person listening to them, each time they try to put forward a case in favour of continuing the racist experiment of the 'Jewish State'

For example , this Zioracist is trying to claim that Palestinian demands for return of their land stem from a desire to ethnically-cleanse Jewish presence from Palestinian territory, but this is of course lying nonsense.

The vast majority of the Jewish people present in Palestinian territory are Colonists, and mostly all adherents to notions of Jewish Ethnic-supremacy,. Their presence there is as a result of actions deemed illegal by every applicable section of International Law, and virtually every international body which has expressed an opinion on the matter

The land in the WB was granted to a Palestinian state under UN resolution 181, The very same resolution which gave Israel legitimacy in the eyes of many in the international community, and because of that, irrespective of whether or not any Palestinian state ever came into being, one thing we can be certain about is that that land does not belong to Israel or Israelis. Consequently all land now occupied by Israeli Jewish colonists in WB is indisputably stolen. .

Since Israel and supporters of the Zio-racist state claim legitimacy under 181, they themselves implicitly agree that that land is not theirs since it was not granted to them under the UN resolution 181. So all protestations to the contrary are just lies, and all who would claim that Palestinian demands to be returned their land are na impediment to peace are just liars.

this Zio-racist has the audacity to claim that Palestinians rightful, both legally and morally, demands to have their land returned to them is some sort of impediment to peace. This is an astoundingly dishonest claim, since it a undeniable fact that Israel's stealing of land from Palestinians, and the water which comes with it, both in the past and continuing to this day, is THE major cause of the conflict between the two, and is recognised the world over as THE major injustice perpetrated by the Israelis on the Palestinians.

** - Since Zionism is by definition racism - all support for the Zionist state is by definition support for racism, ergo all supporters of Zionism are supporting racism

by Jimmy Fri Jun 03, 2011 15:02

You're committing several logical facllacies at once there Contrarian. First of all, the attempt to force your opponent to choose between a narrow range of arguments, both of which accept that Israel does not kill civillians deliberately is called 'begging the question' and is an attempt to establish as settled a claim that is currently up for debate (whether you like it or not); secondly, you are setting up a straw man in trying to pretend that your opponent is arguing that Israel deliberately sets out to maximise civillian casualties. As ar as I can tell, no-one is arguing that. What they are arguing is that the Israeli state kills far more civillians than their Palestinian opponents, and that these can no more be accounted 'accidents' than the victims of Hamas.

by Contrarian Fri Jun 03, 2011 00:50

...is that most of the 124 Israeli children killed were murdered as a result of a deliberate intention by Palestinians to maximize Jewish civilian deaths. A suicide bomber chooses the location to detonate and can more or less see exactly who his victims are going to be.

If the Israelis set out to maximize Palestinian civilian casualties, the death figures would run to tens or even hundreds of thousands. That doesn't happen. Israel's attitude to Palestinian casualties is different. You can choose to make an argument that Israel is careless, reckless or indifferent to Palestinian casualties. Or you can argue that Israel takes great effort to minimize Palestinian civilian casualties. Either position is tenable an there's evidence for both positions at different times. But nobody can seriously contend that Israel sets out to maximise Palestinian civilian casualties.

As for counting apples, would you be happier if that figure for Israeli kids was 1240 instead of 124? Would that make your nice bar chart look more "proportionate?" Surely the objective should be to end the conflict and reduce both figures to zero. Which brings me back again to Abbas's comments and the question as to whether the mindset they disclose is an impediment to peace?

by me Thu Jun 02, 2011 19:13

Israel currently has 124 Jewish-only settlements, 100 ‘outposts,’ and 12 ‘neighborhoods’ annexed to Jerusalem – all built on confiscated Palestinian land.
Palestinians do not have any settlements on Israeli land.

1 Israeli is being held prisoner by Palestinians,
5,935 Palestinians are currently imprisoned by Israelis

124 Israeli children have been killed by Palestinians since September 29, 2000.
1,452 Palestinian children have been killed by Israelis since September 29, 2000.

45,041 Palestinians have been injured since September 29, 2000.
9,226 Israelis have been injured since September 29, 2000.

The U.S. is providing Israel with at least $8.2 million each day in military aid during Fiscal Year 2011.
The U.S. is providing the Palestinians $0 in military aid during Fiscal Year 2011.

A partial list of Palestinian Children Killed by Israelis

This is a partial list of children mostly 13 and under of the approximately 1,500 Palestinian minors killed by Israeli forces from fall 2000 through early 2011. During the same period Palestinians killed about 130 Israeli minors.

The following information is taken from Remember These Children, which works to document all Israeli and Palestinian children who have been killed, in the belief, sadly not shared by the U.S. media, that all of these children matter. In the list below, “IDF” stands for Israeli Defense Forces, an offensive, occupying force; “Incursion” refers to an invasion of Palestinian land by Israeli military forces. The full list is available at www.RememberTheseChildren.org

Muhammad Saleh Muhammad al-Arja, 12, of Rafah, Gaza, killed by Israeli sniper fire to his head near the Rafah boder crossing.

Math Ahmad Muhammad abu-Hadwan, 11, of Hebron, killed by IDF gunfire to his head in Tel Rumeida.

Abdul-Rahman Khaled Hammouda Khbeish, 4, of Balata refugee camp, killed by IDF gunfire to his head.

Obeisi infant girl, of Nablus, died at an IDF checkpoint when her mother was prevented from crossing to reach the hospital.

Muhammad Ismael Hashem Nasr, 10, of Dahyet al-Bareed, near Jerusalem, killed by Israeli settlers.

Isra Ahmad, 11, of Nablus, died at an IDF checkpoint when she was prevented from reaching a hospital.

Mahmoud Ismael al-Darwish, 11, of Dura, near Hebron, killed by IDF shelling to his chest.

Yehya Fathi Muhammad al-Sheikh Eid, 12, of Rafah, Gaza, killed by IDF shelling to his face, neck and abdomen.

Iman Muhammad al-Haju, 4 months, of Khan Younis, Gaza, killed by IDF shelling while in her mother’s arms.

Suleiman Sami al-Masri, 12, of Rafah, Gaza, killed by IDF gunfire to his back.

Khalil Ibrahim Muhammad al-Moghrabi, 11, of Rafah, Gaza, killed by IDF tank fire to his head while playing with a friend near the border with Egypt.

Diya Marwan Hilmi al-Tmeizi, 3 months, of Ithna, near Hebron, killed, with her older brother, by Israeli settler gunfire to her head and back.

Ashraf Khalil Abdul-Minem, 8, of al-Judeidah, near Jenin, killed, with his brother, in an IDF helicopter missile strike during a targeted assassination.

Bilal Khalil Abdul-Minem, 10, of al-Judeidah, near Jenin, killed, with his brother, in an IDF helicopter missile strike during a targeted assassination.

Azhar Said Shalafa, 2, of Rafah, Gaza, died at an IDF checkpoint when her mother was prevented from taking her to the hospital.

Muhammad Subhi abu-Arrar, 14, of Rafah refugee camp, Gaza, killed by IDF sniper fire to his chest while playing in front of his home.

Inas Samir abu-Zeid, 5, of Rafah, Gaza, killed, with her brother, by IDF shelling.

Suleiman Samir abu-Zeid, 7, of Rafah, Gaza, killed, with his sister, by IDF shelling.

Abdallah Atatrah, 3, of al-Tarm, near Jenin, died at an IDF checkpoint when the car carrying him was prevented from getting to the Yabad medical center after he fell into a swamp.

Khaled Arafat al-Batash, 2, of Hebron, killed by the IDF and Israeli settlers during a gas attack.

Riham Nabil Younis Abul-Ward, 10, of Jenin, killed by IDF gunfire to her head while in her classroom.

Abed-Rabo infant, newborn, of Bethlehem, died at an IDF checkpoint after its mother was denied access to medical care.

Akram Naim Abdul-Karim al-Astal, 6, of Khan Younis refugee camp, Gaza, killed, with his brother and three cousins, by an IDF missile while on their way to school.

Anis Idris Muhammad al-Astal, 11, of Khan Younis refugee camp, Gaza, killed, with his brother and three cousins, by an IDF missile while on their way to school.

Muhammad Rateb abu-Shahla, 12, of Jenin, killed by IDF shelling to his head.

Shadi Ahmad Abdul-Moti Arafeh, 13, of Hebron, killed in an IDF helicopter missile strike during a targeted assassination.

Burhan Muhammad Ibrahim al-Himuni, 3, of Hebron, killed in an IDF helicopter missile strike during a targeted assassination.

Muhammad Zakin, 8 hours, of Yamoun, near Jenin, died at an IDF checkpoint after his mother was denied access to medical care.

Rami Salahaldeen Muhammad Zurob, 13, of Rafah, Gaza, killed by IDF helicopter fire to his head while playing in front of his house.

Muna Sami Ataya al-Bajasa, 13, of Khan Younis, Gaza, killed, with her mother, by IDF tank fire to her head during an incursion.

Mahmoud Hasan Ahmad al-Talalka, 7, of Beit Hanoun, Gaza, killed by IDF gunfire to his abdomen near the Nisanit settlement.

Maria Izaldeen abu-Sarieh, 9, of Jenin refugee camp, killed by IDF shelling to her head while in her home during an incursion.

Inas Ibrahim Eisa Saleh, 9, of Jabalya refugee camp, Gaza, died of wounds sustained Feb. 19 from IDF shelling during a targeted assassination.
Muhammad Hussein abu-Kweik, 8, of Amari refugee camp, killed, with his two sisters, by IDF helicopter fire during a targeted assassination.

Shaima Izaldeen Ibrahim al-Masri, 7, of Ramallah, killed by IDF helicopter fire during a targeted assassination.

Ayat Kamal Mahmoud al-Bana, 12, of Jabalya, Gaza, killed by IDF tankfire in Jabalya.

Fadallah Imad Hasan al-Najjar, 2, of Jablya refugee camp, Gaza, killed by an IDF missile strike on Jabalya refugee camp.

Nashat Raed al-Firi, 12, of Jabalya, Gaza, killed by an IDF missile strike on Jabalya.

Basim Talat Jamil Abdul-Nabi, 12, of Jabalya refugee camp, Gaza, killed, with his brother, by an IDF missile while playing on the site of a demolished house in Jabalya refugee camp.

Qasim Talat Jamil Abdul-Nabi, 7, of Jabalya refugee camp, Gaza, killed, with his brother, by an IDF missile while playing on the site of a demolished house in Jabalya refugee camp.

Muhammad Medhat Harb Eslim al-Bassous, 10, of al-Shejaya, near Gaza City Gaza, killed, with his first cousin, by an IDF missile strike near his home in al-Shejaya.

Hamza Saadallah Matar Masoud abu-Halima, 8, of Atatra, near Beit Lahya, Gaza, killed, with two brothers and his father, by IDF bombs in Beit Lahya.

Ziad Saadallah Matar Masoud abu-Halima, 10, of Atatra, near Beit Lahya, Gaza, killed, with two brothers and his father, by IDF bombs in Beit Lahya.

Izaldeen Adel Khaled al-Farra, 13, of al-Qarara near Khan Younis, Gaza, killed by an IDF missile while riding a bike to his neighborhood store.

Aisha Ibrahim al-Said al-Najjar, 4, of Jabalya, Gaza, killed by the IDF in Jabalya.

Hadeel Jabr Diab al-Rafati, 9, of Beit Lahya, Gaza, killed by the IDF in Jabalya, Gaza.

Khalil Muhammad Musa Bahar, 12, of Gaza City, Gaza, killed by IDF shelling in Gaza City’s al-Shaf neighborhood.

Nur Izaldeen Waheed Musa, 15, of Gaza City, Gaza, killed by an IDF missile while at home in Gaza City’s al-Sabra neighborhood.

Hala Isam Ahmad al-Mnei, 1 month, of Beit Lahya, Gaza, died of wounds sustained Jan 13 in an IDF attack on Beit Lahya.

Samer Muhammad al-Abd abu-Asr, 17, of al-Shejaya, near Gaza City, Gaza, killed by an IDF missile in al-Shejaya.

Haneen Fadel Muhammad al-Batran, 10, of Gaza City, Gaza, killed by the IDF in Gaza City’s Tal al-Hawa neighborhood.

Shaima Adel Ibrahim al-Jadba, 9, of Gaza City, Gaza, killed by IDF shelling while at home in Gaza City’s al-Tufah neighborhood.

Bara Ata Hasan al-Ermaliat, 1, of Beit Lahya, Gaza, killed, with two sisters and her mother, by IDF shelling in Beit Lahya.

Arij Ata Hasan al-Ermaliat, 2 months, of Beit Lahya, Gaza, killed, with two sisters and her mother, by IDF shelling in Beit Lahya.

Husam Muhammad Shaban Eslim, 7, of Gaza City, Gaza, killed, with his brother and first cousin, by an IDF missile strike during a targeted assassination.

Ahmad Muhammad Shaban Eslim, 13, of Gaza City, Gaza, killed, with his brother and first cousin, by an IDF missile strike during a targeted assassination.

Ahmad Usama Muhammad Kurtom, 7, of Gaza City, Gaza, killed by the IDF in Gaza City’s Rimal neighborhood.

How'd ye like them apples?

by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite party Thu Jun 02, 2011 18:43

and do I recognise the state of israel?

Which state? It seems to be a movingable(and ever expanding) feast on the blood of innocents.

by contrarian Thu Jun 02, 2011 17:21

let's compare apples with apples, shall we? Abbas is a major player, on a par with Netanyahu (actually he's richer than Netanyahu but thats a different story) who engages at head of state level. The views of tin-pot mayors and obscure academics are pretty irrelevant by comparison. (like michael healy rae is a mayor ffs, not to be taken seriously) Israel has a track record of facing down its own settler extremists when it comes to land for peace withdrawals. Sinai and Gaza evidence this. Same will happen again when the Palestinians are ready to do a peace deal involving the dismantling of some but not all settlements.

by me Thu Jun 02, 2011 16:58

"But if a major Israeli politician had said that Israel should be free of any Palestinian presence, well, just imagine the stink that would be raised. Sauce for the goose travels in one direction only, it seems. "

Imagine the shrill uproar if a Harvard fellow called for forcefully limiting Jewish births? But he's just following the racist doctrine of Zionism to it's logical conclusion.

http://walt.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2010/02/27/kramer_v...ramer

“Aging populations reject radical agenda and the Middle East is no different. Now eventually, this will happen among the Palestinians, too. But it will happen faster if the West stops providing pro-natal subsidies for Palestinians with refugee status. Those subsidies are one reason why in the ten years, from 1997 to 2007, Gaza's population grew by an astonishing 40%. At that rate, Gaza's population will double by 2030 to three million. Israel's present sanctions on Gaza have a political aim, undermine the Hamas regime, but they also break Gaza's runaway population growth and there is some evidence that they have. That may begin to crack the culture of martyrdom, which demands a constant supply of superfluous young men."

Essentially he's just advocating speeding up the ongoing genocide

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smfbF_l0euo - video of Harvard Zionist Martin Kramer advocating for forced control of the indigenous Palestinian Population .

by me Thu Jun 02, 2011 16:46

“Our [Illegal Jewish-only colonies] prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state in the land of Israel. This is the goal, and this is the reality.

- Daniella Weiss, a major pro-settlement activist and former mayor of Kedumim (Illegal israeli Colony in the WB) to Bob Simon, in “Time running out for a Two-State Solution?” http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/01/23/60minutes/mai...49723

by FACTS Thu Jun 02, 2011 14:47

Those Illegal colonies/'settlements' of Ethnic-supremacist Jewish Colonists were illegal from the get-go - they were illegal under every applicable section of international Law and Israel knew this , and was warned about it many many times by various International bodies, when stealing the land and building on it, yet went ahead regardless, so they have no legal or moral right to that land. And no right to complain when someone demands that they vacate that stoien land

by FACTS Thu Jun 02, 2011 14:34

If Illegal Israeli colonies were allowed to remain then the best West Bank land and aquifers would go to Illegal Racist Ethnic-supremacist Israeli Colonists in exchange for sub-standard land elsewhere. This would in effect be rewarding the Israelis for their illegal land stealing, and is legally and morally unjustifiable.

Already, Israel uses 80 percent of West Bank water resources and on a per capita basis Illegal Racist Ethnic-supremacist Israeli Colonists use approximately 48 times more water than legally resident Palestinians. The current unjust water distribution is likely to be made permanent if Israel keeps Illegal Racist Ethnic-supremacist Israeli Colonists on stolen Palestinian land, all of which are illegal under international law.

Israel’s desire to retain blocs of illegal Colonies and a military presence in the Jordan Valley will make any Palestinian state noncontiguous and nonviable. Such a state would be little more than disconnected Bantustans.

by FACTS Thu Jun 02, 2011 14:25

The Public Committee Against Torture in Israel (PACTI) "believes that torture and ill-treatment of any kind and under all circumstances is incompatible with the moral values of democracy and the rule of law."
http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/node/50335

unfortunately their values don't appear to be shared by the majority of Israeli society, or certainly not by the Israeli Police, General Security Service (GSS), Israeli Prison Service (IPS), and Israeli Defense Forces (IDF), and presumably the Israeli Gov't and much of the Judiciary (despite an apparent Israeli Supreme court ruling against the practice:

,Israel's Supreme Court ruling in Public Committee against Torture in Israel et al v. the Government of Israel et al (the HCJ Torture Petition) established the current legal basis, even though international law prohibits it unequivocally, at all times, under all conditions, with no allowed exceptions - a matter universally binding even on non-signatory states. Israel, however, signed and ratified the 1984 Convention against Torture. Yet no Israeli law explicitly bans it, except for several provisions relating to torture, including assault, abuse of defenseless persons, and the explicit prohibition of force or threats by a public employee toward interrogees.

However, Israeli court rulings ban torture, and the Supreme Court interpreted the Basic Law: Human Dignity and Liberty to mean torture is unacceptable and prohibited. Earlier, "psychological pressure (and) a moderate degree of physical pressure" were permissible, based on the Landau Commission's recommendations that GSS interrogators may commit such acts on the basis of necessity.

The Commission condemned the practice but approved using it to obtain evidence for convictions in criminal proceedings, saying coercive interrogation tactics were necessary against "hostile (threats or acts of) terrorist activity and all expressions of Palestinian nationalism."

Despite a landmark decision on September 6, 1999 by the Israeli High Court law outlawing the use of arbitrary torture as an interrogation method, which revealed Israel as the only ‘democratic’ state in the world that permitted torture by law, methods of torture are still applied by Israeli interrogators of Palestinian detainees.

These methods include violent shaking, isolation, beating, kicking, sleep deprivation, agonizing positioning and infliction of pain for prolonged periods of time. The notorious Landau Commission Recommendations of 1987 approved the use of ‘moderate physical pressure and non-violent psychological pressure’ during the interrogation of Palestinian detainees. Landau Commission Recommendations override the Israeli High Court law by labelling Israel’s designation of the Palestinian Territories as ‘exceptional’ circumstances, thus providing justification for their deire to use what they euphemistically label ‘protective defense policies’ and their desire to conduct ‘effective investigations’ in order to ensure 'security.'

In cases that Israel practiced torture against Palestinian prisoners, explanations and justifications have been based on the necessity of torture due to these ‘exceptional circumstances’. Confessions extracted through torture are admissible in Israeli court. B’Tselem (the Israeli Information Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories) reports that over 85% of Palestinian detainees are tortured during interrogation. TRC’s statistics reveal that 40% of those who are tortured suffer from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD).

Save The Children concluded that:

‘one-third of beaten children were under ten years old, one-fifth under the age of five. Nearly a third of children beaten suffered broken bones.’

One form of torture used by the Israeli's has even become known as 'A Palestinian 'Hanging'' so ubiquitous is it's use in Israel

'Strappado' Position now known as 'A Palestinian Hanging' . . .

. . . Also used by a well-known bunch of Racial Supremacists, in the past

Banana Position - widely used in Israel

not enough room to lie-down OR Stand-up OR stretch-out

by contrarian Thu Jun 02, 2011 14:19

Once again you attempt to reduce complex problem to simplistic caricatures and clichés. Calling people " illegal ethno-supremecist racist" don't just make it so. For example, the Etzion "settlement" is built on land BOUGHT by jews from Arabs 100 years ago. The settlers were massacred during the War of Independence and the settlements raze to the ground. What's so wrong or illegal about re-establishing those settlements? And yes, there were massacres of Arabs by Jews too. That has to be acknowledged. So we can trade atrocities all day with no danger of running out of them. Or we can look at solutions and obstacles. Which brings me back to Abbas's remarks...... It is ironic that the Palestinians now want to demarcate the land within The 1967 boundaries as exclusively their state. They and the entire Arab world steadfastly refused to recognise the Green Line as an state border from 1948 to 1967.

by FACTS Thu Jun 02, 2011 14:03

The plight of Palestinian children arrested by the Israeli army has long been one of the neglected aspects of Israeli occupation, involving some 600 minors a year since the outbreak of the second Intifada in September 2000.

Nearly all are held without access to legal support during questioning, often compelled to sign confessions in Hebrew, a language they don't understand, while subjected to intimidation and mistreatment as a matter of routine course. I

t starts with the arrest itself, which can take place during night-time incursions or mass arrest campaigns, or alternatively at the military checkpoints which have played such a part in curtailing the economic and social life of the West Bank. After a night or two behind bars, some minors are released without charge, while the unfortunate ones, around 300 a year, start their passage through the Israeli military justice system which stands as the rule of law in the Occupied Palestinian Territories.

This system allows no special provisions for minors, despite the fact that Israel is a signatory of numerous international treaties which demand due consideration for age in the legal process, not least of which is the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child. Those considerations are, by contrast, applied to Israeli minors, including those living cheek by jowl with the Palestinians in illegal West Bank settlements. Life doesn't improve on the inside, with Palestinian children routinely reporting torture or mistreatment.

http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article4856.shtml

by FACTS Thu Jun 02, 2011 13:55

FACT: - UN Resolutions Targeting Israel and the Palestinians
Israel is the target of at least 65 UN Resolutions and the Palestinians are the target of none.

Aside from the core issues—refugees, Jerusalem, borders—the major themes reflected in the U.N. resolutions against Israel over the years are its unlawful attacks on its neighbors; its violations of the human rights of the Palestinians, including deportations, demolitions of homes and other collective punishments; its confiscation of Palestinian land; its establishment of illegal settlements; and its refusal to abide by the U.N. Charter and the 1949 Fourth Geneva Convention Relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War.

FACT: -
Israel currently has 124 Jewish-only settlements, 100 ‘outposts,’ and 12 ‘neighborhoods’ annexed to Jerusalem – all built on confiscated Palestinian land.

Palestinians do not have any settlements on Israeli land.

FACT -

“The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies.”

- Article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention of 1949

Source: According to the Israeli Information Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories, B’Tselem, 2010 summary, (http://www.btselem.org/English/Publications/Summaries/L...2.asp) there are 124 official Israeli settlements and 100 informal outposts, and 12 Jerusalem settlements on Palestinian land.

FACT: - Peace Now’s interactive settlement map -http://peacenow.org/map.php, shows the name, location, and population for each settlement and outpost on Palestinian territory, all of which are considered illegal under international law.

by FACTS Thu Jun 02, 2011 13:47

Contrarian: "Fair enough, but can we all accept its not all one-sided?"

Almost every subject can be argued two ways, especially when the subject at hand is as controversial as the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. No matter how unjust the Israeli siege on the Gaza Strip is, there will always be those biased or deluded souls that justify it with the "Hamas terrorists" argument and the hackneyed Israeli pretext of state security.

However, one subject, which cannot possibly have a flip side to it, is the torture of children. Only a deranged and perverted mind could justify that.

So which sick deranged and perverted minds are happy to torture children?

Step forward Israel’s security establishment

http://uruknet.com/?p=m66623&hd=&size=1&l=e

Throughout 2009, DCI’s Palestine chapter reviewed over 100 affidavits from Palestinian minors between the ages of 12 to 16 who gave sworn testimonies of their torture and sexual assault at the hands of Israeli soldiers or interrogators.

To read some of these affidavits is shocking. Israeli interrogators bind boys as young as 13 to chairs, sometimes handcuffed, and squeeze their testicles until the child admits to throwing stones. In other sworn affidavits, all of which were taken immediately after the boys were released, the minors recount how Israeli soldiers or interrogators slap them, kick them, call their mothers whores and threaten to rape them. "He started beating me all over my body and once again he grabbed my testicles and started pressing hard. 'I won’t let go of your testicles unless you confess,’ he said to me. I felt so much pain and kept shouting. I had no other choice but to confess to throwing stones," said one 15-year old boy in his testimony to DCI.

by FACTS Thu Jun 02, 2011 13:34

Clearly refer to Illegal Israeli Jewish Colonists currently inhabiting stolen land, and for whom land is still being stolen in ever-increasing amounts - only a Zio-racist would try and maintain that Abbas intends merely are to create a 'Juden-frei' [sic] (actually 'Juden-rein' would be the correct term, if it were applicable, but it is not)

What Abbas clearly wants is an 'Illegal Racist Ethnic-supremacist Jewish Colonist-frei' Palestine - which he is perfectly entitled to, since ALL of these so-called 'settlers' (actually Racist Ethno-supremacist Jewish Colonists) are Illegally residing on STOLEN Palestinian land.

The only Jewish people that reside in what should be PA territory are Israeli Military or Illegal Racist Ethnic-supremacist Jewish Colonists. (there are some small number of Jewish Israeli peace-activists also residing there, who spend their time trying to prevent/document the illegal actions of the racist Israeli Military and the Illegal Racist Ethnic-supremacist Jewish Colonists against the legal (according to International Law) inhabitants of the West Bank, and we can all be pretty sure it's not them that Abbas is referring to.)

As per the original post:

"the future Palestinian state should be free of any Israeli presence, whether military or civilian"

Abbas has every right to demand that "the future Palestinian state should be free of any Israeli presence, whether military or civilian".

Palestinians have every right to demand the removal of Illegal Ethnic-supremacist Jewish Colonists, to demand and expect that they vacate the land which they have stolen. They have absolutely no legal or moral right to continue to live on this stolen land, and to grant them continued residency rights on this stolen land would be to reward them and Israel for their illegal acts of dispossession and ethnic-cleansing

It is not 'Ethnic-Cleansing' to demand that those who have recently stolen land vacate it so that it can be returned to it's legal rightful owners. To claim that it is, is to demonstrate an appalling ignorance of the definition of 'Ethnic-Cleansing' in international law, or to demonstrate a complete willingness to lie and twist meaning in service of your despicably racist Zionist enterprise. I'm pretty certain I know which of those two categories YOU fall into.

These Illegal colonies/'settlements' of Ethnic-supremacist Jewish Settlers were illegal from the get-go - they were illegal under every applicable section of international Law and Israel knew this , and was warned about it many many times by various International bodies, when stealing the land and building on it, yet went ahead regardless, so they have no legal or moral right to that land. And no right to complain when someone demands that they vacate that stoien land

by Contrarian Thu Jun 02, 2011 11:49

Ignoring the standard and cliched "Zio-racist" insult for the moment ( would palo-racist be acceptable?) surely hypocrisy consists of pretending that ALL the fault is on one side only. As I said earlier, there are plenty atrocities on both sides to go around. This year alone, Palestinian attacks on Israeli civilians include the shooting dead of 4 civilians (one pregnant), a family of parents and children having their throats slit and the return of suicide bombings. All these attacks were deliberately intended to maximise civilian casualties. You have correctly identified instances of unacceptable actions by Israel. Fair enough, but can we all accept its not all one-sided?I started off by pointing out that Abbas remarks appear to present a barrier to a peaceful resolution and expressing surprise at the lack of coverage of the speech in the western media. It is telling that the only response is "what about-ery" rather than engaging with what Abbas really means and what this might say about Palestinian attitudes and the prospects for a peaceful solution.

by FACTS Thu Jun 02, 2011 00:37

You hypocritical Zio-racists make me sick

FACT: - In Jerusalem alone, Israel has kidnapped nearly 1,200 Palestinian Children since start of 2010
OCCUPIED JERUSALEM, (PIC) 31 May -- A report released Tuesday reveals a drastic escalation in friction between Israeli police and the Palestinian citizens of Jerusalem, especially those in the Silwan and Al-Issawiyya districts. Issued by the Association for Civil Rights in Israel, the report documents that police since the beginning of 2010 rounded up 1,200 Palestinians suspected of throwing stones and kept some 760 of them in custody. About a third of those arrested were indicted and imprisoned until the end of the legal proceedings, the ACRI said. "The large numerical gap between the youth who were questioned and arrested and those who were actually indicted speaks to the suspicions of Palestinians, who believe that most of these arrests and interrogations are intended solely to intimidate the minors," the report says.
http://www.palestine-info.co.uk/En/default.aspx?xyz=U6Qq7

FACT: - Israeli forces kidnap five Palestinian children, aged from 7 years old to 11 years old, while playing

Silwan, Jerusalem (SILWANIC) 1 June -- Five Palestinian children were arrested by Israeli forces in Silwan at 3:45pm today. Amer Walid Siyam (7), Tamer Walid Siyam (11), Ahmed Khaled Rajaby (11), Mohammed Ibrahim Riwadi (10) and Rawnaq Zaki Zaytun (8) were playing when they were seized by Israeli forces from Alwar Hill between Bir Ayyub and Alabasya districts. Residents state that the situation had been quiet in the region at the time of the arrests. The Israeli forces were seen leaving an Elad settlement in the area to close in on the children. As yet the children’s families have not been notified as to where they are being held.
http://silwanic.net/?p=17623

FACT - Israeli cowards in gunboat fire on fishermen in Gazan waters
ISM 1 June -- Ramadan Zidan, 51, and his son Mohamed, 20 set sail from the harbor in Gaza at seven in the morning, they didn’t plan to go far, only to fish outside of the harbor. For an hour and half everything went well, it was a beautiful morning and they still hoped to have a successful day of fishing. When the Israeli gunboat first started to approach them at eight thirty a.m. they thought nothing of it, they were close to the port, nowhere near the Israeli imposed three mile limit on Palestinian fisherman. Unexpectedly the gunboat started to shoot around their boat.
http://palsolidarity.org/2011/06/18647/

FACT: - 24,813 Palestinian Homes Demolished by Israel - http://ifamericansknew.org/stats/homes.html
0 Israeli homes have been demolished by Palestinians and 24,813 Palestinian homes have been demolished by Israel since 1967.

In addition to the homes demolished by Israel, thousands of Palestinian homes have been destroyed or significantly damaged by Israeli bombing and shelling. On the flip side, while Palestinians have not demolished any Israeli homes, there is one known case of a Palestinian destroying an Israeli home in an explosion.

FACT - 1 Israeli is being held prisoner by Palestinians, while 5,935 Palestinians are currently imprisoned by Israel. http://ifamericansknew.org/stats/prisoners.html

“Since the beginning of the Israeli occupation of Palestinian territories in 1967, over 650,000 Palestinians have been detained by Israel. This forms approximately 20% of the total Palestinian population in the Occupied Palestinian Territories (OPT).”

by contrarian Wed Jun 01, 2011 17:16

Shalit was within Israel proper, on the Israeli side of the Green Line, NOT Gaza or the west bank when he was kidnapped by Hamas terrorists. You DO recognise the State of Israel, don't you? Or do you want to wipe it off the map, like Ahmadinijad does. Either you think Shalit's treatment is ok or its not. What happened to Rachel Corrie does not make what Hamas are doing to Shalit ok. We can trade atrocities all day, there's plenty to go around, on both sides. Point is, if this is to ever be fixed, then we need to know what is acceptable as framework for a solution. If Abbas wants a judenfrei Palestine, this is a pretty major obstacle.

by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite party Wed Jun 01, 2011 15:47

'..kidnapped from his own country..'??

Or maybe captured in armed occupation of 'kidnapped' Palestinian lands.

Rachel Corrie didn't have the benefits of your humanitarian concerns or international law. Thats hasbara propaganda. Try again.

No Jews in Gaza? No, who is going to live in the most densely populated state of incarceration under threat of hi-tech obliteration if they have the choice of living in the stolen houses of the dispossessed?Not Zionist Jews anyway. Gush Shalom conscientious objectors maybe.

by contrarian Wed Jun 01, 2011 14:24

Abbas's comments look clear enough to me. The conclusion that he wants no Jews in a Palestinian state is fair comment and reasonable in the circumstances. After all it's happened before. During the Jordanian occupation of the West Bank, no Jewish presence was tolerated and a law was passed imposing the death penalty for anyone selling land to a Jew. And there are no Jews in Gaza today. Well, except the unfortunate Gilad Shalit, kidnapped from his own country, imprisoned, contrary to international law, without access to Red Cross, lawyer, family visits or correspondence. Or is international humanitarian law applicable only when invoked against Jews rather than by them?

By the way, dismissing arguments as "classic hasbara" is a bit feeble. Deal with the facts rather than the supposed motivation of those who point them out.

by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite party Wed Jun 01, 2011 11:38

check out item three on this list.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=25072

some more further down..Shalom

by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite party Wed Jun 01, 2011 11:10

Plenty of 'presumed' and 'but if' to bolster the flimsy construction of his selective extractions. Classic hasbara, straight from the handbook. Pump up the actual historic persecution of all minorities, including the Jews, into a specific paranoid polemic against the Arab and Islamic peoples the Zionist puppeteers in the Anglo/US imperium require to secure their domination of the region.
Thats why the Zionists colaborated with the Nazis, to filter first the refugees of the thirties, and then the holocaust survivers to Palestine, rather than the US where the majority wished to seek refuge. That destination(the US) freaked the fuck out of American anti-semites, already wrestling with the re-liberation of Southern negros from the JIm Crow regime as they migrated north to the 'heartland' of WASP America.

Not so much a pinch of salt, more a modicum of historic perspective. This is just the pre-emptive cranking of the machine for damage limitation as the flotilla prepares. Dress for a blizzard of similar white noise. Debate ist verboten while the hasbara machine is running. Unless strictly contained within the global corporate imperium's parameters. The good news is, we're not quite, just yet. Fair play to indy for letting him present. Lets see where he(they?) takes it.

by Jimmy Wed Jun 01, 2011 03:35

I would take the above pronouncement with a hefty pinch of salt. It is clearly one of those sadly-frequent attempts to introduce sinister overtones of the holocaust (which happened over 50 years ago and was perpetrated by the Germans) into the debate over the Palestine-Israel conflict (which is happening now and had nothing to do with the Palestinians). Our friend is inviting us to accept without question that Abbas is promoting some kind of ethnic cleansing of Jews from any future Palestinian state, when what he actually said was that there can be no Israeli presence in that state-a not-at-all-controversial right to assert and one which any sovereign state in the world asserts; would the Israelis accept an Iranian presence in their state/the British accept a French presence/the Ethiopians a Venezuelan presence...
I have no problem engaging in an open debate with Zionists but this kind of 'news' is simply dishonest and misleading.
Peace, and may you return to the 1967 borders...