For lefties too stubborn to quit
Sunday and the Week?s Media Stupid Statements 13:22 Sun Jun 16, 2019 | guestposter
Philomena Lynott 13:05 Sun Jun 16, 2019 | guestposter
The weekend poll 11:00 Sun Jun 16, 2019 | WorldbyStorm
Fundamentally unserious 10:33 Sun Jun 16, 2019 | WorldbyStorm
Heroes 08:35 Sun Jun 16, 2019 | WorldbyStorm
Cedar Lounge >>
Life should be full of strangeness, like a rich painting
Some Thoughts on the Brexit Joint Report 11:50 Sat Dec 09, 2017
IRISH COMMONWEALTH: TRADE UNIONS AND CIVIL SOCIETY IN THE 21ST CENTURY 14:06 Sat Nov 18, 2017
Notes for a Book on Money and the Irish State - The Marshall Aid Program 15:10 Sat Apr 02, 2016
The Financial Crisis:What Have We Learnt? 19:58 Sat Aug 29, 2015
Money in 35,000 Words or Less 21:34 Sat Aug 22, 2015
Dublin Opinion >>
Test ? 12 November 2018 Mon Nov 12, 2018 14:28 | namawinelake
Farewell from NWL Sun May 19, 2013 14:00 | namawinelake
Happy 70th Birthday, Michael Sun May 19, 2013 14:00 | namawinelake
Of the Week? Sat May 18, 2013 00:02 | namawinelake
Noonan denies IBRC legal fees loan approval to Paddy McKillen was in breach of E... Fri May 17, 2013 14:23 | namawinelake
NAMA Wine Lake >>
The Circus is Coming to Town
irish social forum |
Tuesday February 24, 2015 16:31 by Nuala
It was bad enough in 1966. I'm glad I'll be at a safe distance when The Circus comes to town next year.
Jayzizz I'm glad I got out of Ireland in the 1970s.
Jay, imagine having to live in Ireland when the Circus is coming to town next year.
It was bad enough in 1966.
Well I've made good my escape.
Aw jayzizz; The Free State Army?
Bury my Heart at Knocknagoshel.
BURY MY HEART AT KNOCKNAGOSHEL
(begin quote:) / “The miserable death of a revolution
The bitterness of the Civil War's final few months would live long in the memory of participants. The casualties were considerably higher in the conventional fighting of July and August 1922, but it was the manner of the deaths in March 1923 that was so hard to forgive. The fallen killed not in combat but coldly murdered when helpless and unarmed.
The Irish revolution, born out of violence, but also with great hopes, in 1916, died a miserable death in the back-roads of Kerry in the spring of 1923
The men on the ground, on both sides, were in the final stage of years of exposure to and practice of violence since 1919. Looked at in this light, the atrocities of the Civil War on both sides can largely be explained by a grim cycle of retaliation - the need to hit back for hurt caused to one's own comrades. Many of these men, especially those in the Dublin Guard, had been inured to killing by years of casual and up-close acquaintance. March 1923 demonstrated the depths of cruelty they had reached.
At a higher level, the leadership of both sides failed to avert the descent into internecine slaughter. The Anti-Treaty side made the events of March 1923 possible by prolonging the conflict long after armed resistance to the Irish state made no political, military or tactical sense. On the side of the Pro-Treatyites, the government tolerated elements of their forces murdering prisoners out of hand -a practice they were well aware of. (My fuller thoughts on the character of the Civil War here)
The Irish revolution, born out of violence, but also with great hopes, in 1916, died a miserable death in the back-roads of Kerry in the spring of 1923, like so many revolutions, consuming its own sons.”
END OF QUOTE
About Ballyseedy Cross, most accounts omit the fact that some of the prisoners were not killed by the initial blast, and the Irish government soldiers then hurled grenades at groaning, half butchered men to 'finish them off.'
Well, they couldn't turn back. No way out.
No monument to Staters...................................
Only a small indentation in the ground marks the spot at Knocknagoshel where the five Staters, including Paddy Pats, died.
The Irish State cannot honour them with a monument.
The Staters had no martyrs, other than Michael.
Apart from that, where was the logic in the Anti-treatyite resistance to the Free State government?
Was Liam Lynch insane?
The bottom line was that the Staters could rely on unlimited resupply of arms and ammunition from Churchill, if the need arose.... and that may have been happening during 1922/23 but not recorded in the history books........... so the anti-treatyite war was lost before it began.
So why fight when you can't win, considering all the 'collateral damage' of 1922/23?
Collective Mental Illness?
When the Circus comes to town next year, consider this.
The Irish proved in their civil war of 1922/23 that Irishmen can oppress other Irishmen ten times worse than the British had done, at least in terms of the twentieth century.
So where's the glory when the Circus comes to town next year, when you remember the Irish government soldiers throwing grenades at half butchered prisoners of war to finish them off at Ballyseedy Cross.
"The volunteers may have to wade through Irish blood, through the blood of some members of this government, in order to get Irish freedom. ..................
.......... And if it is only by civil war that Irish freedom can be obtained, then so be it."
-Eamon de Valera, election speeches 1922, prior to the outbreak of civil war.