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Michael Moore in Belfast national |
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feature
 Friday August 15, 2003 10:20 by BlackPope - Vid/Audio Group BlackPope at operamail dot com
 Feile an Phobail audience first to hear new Moore book A report including audio and pictures of Michael Moore's August 9th 2003 press conference in Belfast.
The show started with a 25min press Q+A session, during which Mr. Moore at times struggled to impart simple concepts of humour to the surly Belfast press-pack. Topics included the section of his book "Stupid White Men" relating to N.Ireland's religious 'problem', Schwarzenegger's election chances, outlook for 2004 elections in USA, 'Bowling for Columbine', Germans, comparison of Nazis with Bush regime, letting down the left, disarmament and State Violence, possibility of assasination and general scrounging for autographs and hugs. Mr. Moore kept the atmosphere fairly light, although many of the one-liners appeared lost on parts of this audience. The "Meyers" interlude, a delightful early 'dig' typical of Moore's style, set the scene and has to be heard to be appreciated. The most serious claim by Moore during this period was that his thinking is situated well within the mainstream of public opinion in the US today. 
There was then a short interval while the public mob was packed in. Some brief announcements re. fire-exits were made by Mr. Daniel Morrison, who then [52min mp3] asked "our very own Belfast son and Oscar nominee, that great actor of stage and screen, Stephen Rea, to officially welcome our guest and our brother to Belfast - Michael Moore." Mr. Rea duly piled on the praise in lucid terms and the main man himself was brought on stage to a very hearty standing ovation from the well-pumped crowd. Wiping a crocodile-tear from his eye while pretending to adjust his hat, Mr. Moore thanked the enraptured crowd and started with "and now I'd like to finish what I was saying at the Oscar's, before I was so rudely cut off!" This did not happen immediately, however, the first eight minutes being given over to a general ramble of introductory stand-up reminiscence and brief recap of the press conference. He then caught himself wandering and launched into the subject proper. This consisted of a withering re-evaluation of the outcome of the 2000 election (Bush lost), the regime's manipulation of public fear following the Sept.11th 2001 attack for nefarious purposes, an interesting analysis of the swing in public support for the Iraq Aggression, the likely reaction of the public to the tissue of lies used to justify it - which is now being revealed, and the continuing effort to maintain heightened levels of fear. On this subject Moore then [11 min mp3] read from his forthcoming book, entitled "Dude, where's my country?", the chapter called "The United States of Boo!" The key section in this reads:
He then discussed possible outcomes for the US 2004 elections, before moving on to deal with the current political limbo in N.Ireland. This consisted mainly of a resounding verbal slap round the head to all political parties concerned, as an encouragement to 'shut the fuck up and get over it' before concluding with the appeal "You, the State, representing the people, put down your guns, leave this island, let the people have free, peaceful, open elections. Let them decide their own fate!" 
Moore was clearly very sympathetically received by the crowd present and made for an amusing and memorable show, even though some of his perceptions about Ireland are erroneous - e.g. he placed the Republic OUTSIDE Bush's 'Coalition of the Willing' - and some vestige of typical american 'Herrenvolk' bias about the rest of the world still shows through in his thinking (N.Korea begging to be bombed, US responsible for 'dealing with' Palestinian 'problem'). He does however make an honourable effort to challenge himself and others, and was rewarded for it on this occassion with the special 'Belfast Oscar' or Cuchulain Prize. A [20min mp3] public Q+A session followed the speech.
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The outspoken american film-maker and author Michael Moore appeared at the Feile an Phobail marquee on the Falls Road in West Belfast on Saturday 9th of August to give a public talk as part of the programme of political speakers at that forum, with particular reference to "The sad and sorry state of affairs in the United States of America." 
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Comments (54 of 54)
Jump To Comment: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54This guy doesn't deserve all the space you have given him. He's a guy with books (and films) to sell. He has carved out a lucrative niche, feeding the stereotupes of people who don't know much about the US. Of course he's not a leftist--he supported AL Gore in the last election. And funny enough, he's Canadian, but guess where he lives ? USA ! I am disappointed with West Belfast for giving this glib millionaire a platform. I'm all for cogent analysis of the power structure in the US, but "Stupid White Men" is no more than a rant. An offensive one, too--how would "Foolish White Women" sound, or "Idiotic Black Men" ?
Michael Moore certainly has his faults, and sure, he's probably making a shit-load of money off his anti-Bush ventures, but I for one am glad that he's a prominent public figure: can you imagine anyone else in America getting away with what he says (on such a large scale)?
I doubt it.
And as for two accusations: 1) surely in the last election he supported Ralph Nader (Moore himself is in the Green party, I think). 2) He's canadian? I was under the impression he grew up in Flint, Michigan.
Just found some proof:
1) Michael Moore's letter to Al Gore
http://lists.essential.org/pipermail/ok-sustainability/2000-November/000113.html
2) a Biography of Moore
http://www.blockbuster.com/bb/person/details/0,7621,BIO-P103383,00.html
I still think he has an over-romanticised notion of the 'troubles' though.
Moore supported Nader throughout most of Nader's election campaign. However, when things got very close, Moore suggested that Greens living in states which were too close to call should vote for Gore, just to keep Bush out. It was more to do with strategy, and in fact, it's already being suggested for the 2004 election. Moore disagreed with Gore's politics, but as many other Americans realised, they were better than Bush. Just look at how certain American feminists, gay rights groups, and other minorities discussed the Nader-Gore divide. Recent attacks on abortion rights, the environment, affirmative action, and the poor, to name just a few, demonstrate that differences do exist between Republicans and Democrats. Not many, but they are there.
As for him being a millionaire, getting many facts wrong, and not understanding certain issues in foreign and domestic politics(not to mention publishing his work with a terrible publishing company), who cares. Good is not the enemy of the best. This guy is connecting many Americans to a political critique of Bush, and he's done a good job at getting that started. While he does get some criticism from the American left (which is justified in my opinion), they are able to recognise the great work he has done, rather than just denounce someone for not being in complete and total agreement with their views. It's an outlook that would be well put to use on this island.
Similar vote-swapping strategy promoted by Billy Bragg inn last Brit election.
Whoever you vote for the goverrnment gets in!
Well if the world was run by either black men, or white women, then it would make sense. however, we live in the real world, where stupid (yet sometimes mighty clever)white boys run the show.
As for M. Moore, while I think his politics are ultimatley shite, he is funny, and does highlight issues.
I though the bit in the book dealing with the north was fucking funny. Super-soakers full of holy water!!!!!
Mr Pope,
The download links for the Q&A and the Book Reading are the same.
And any chance of a smaller version of the main file? (at 14 megs us 56kers will be here all bloody day)
Well done on the whole thing all the same. By the way, can't you upload video files to indymedia UK?
he reminds me of Ben Elton.
I think I am in agreement with you simple simon.
Moore has done a huge amount to make the minds or right wing people think about what they believe in and question the whole ideology of capitalism.
Many of my friends/people I know have read a book of his and his ideas have sunk in. None of these people, to my knowledge have read any socialist/anarchist literature either at all or of any sustenance.
In a similar fashion people are tyically cynical of people like Bono - and yet becuase of his huge worldwide fame - he has had a huge positive influence.
I suppose I thought he was Canadian because he continually puts forward Canada as if it were a utopia. I've been in both the US and Canada--I'd take the former any day. Of course this just makes my point--he makes his living out of the USA, yet claims it's a hellhole. The worst thing about something like Bowling for C is that it puts itself forward as a factual documentary, when in reality it's full of lies and dishonesty. One example is the way he depicts American blacks as somehow morally superior, ignoring the very high crime rate in their communities, much higher than in white areas (especially crime with guns!). Another is the patronizing way he mocks the American working class. As to the poster who claimed that American conservatives are forced to rethink by Moore, that's ludicrous. American conservatives don't waste their time with the likes of Moore, when they can read Pat Buchanan.
Sean Keegan wrote:
"the patronizing way he mocks the American working class"
...
Interesting that some wish to call Moore an "American hater" - or that he "mocks the working class"
you are required to check out Moore's "Roger & Me" and "The Big One" as well as his TV series "The Awful Truth" (which was aired in Canada because no US network would air it)
if anyone has risked his nuts for the "American working class" its Michael Moore.don't believe the hype. Sometimes the truth is hard to take.
And they think they'll destroy the message by shooting the messenger.
I'd also note that Moore helped form unions in the past, and has also helped organise people in Flint and other places.
His work on Phil Knight gave American activists great support for their fight against Nike sweatshops. Nike wages, while still criminal, were raised following the pressure put on by Moore's film "The Big One", along with the continued pressure of American activists.
There is no substance to the idea that he makes anyone morally superior, that sounds like a soundbite of Andrew Sullivan.
It's also not a major problem that he makes money out of the work he does. Many people make profit out of doing great work, not everyone has the free time that has been allocated to the middle and upper classes to do a bunch of charity work. Lastly, if you believe that Moore hates or even dislikes America, you are missing the fundamental points of his arguments.
Can someone please explain this paragraph I just don't understand what it means. What's he trying to say?
This mainly of a resounding slap round the head to all concerned, as an encouragement to 'shut the fuck up and get over it' before concluding with the appeal "You, the State, representing the people, put down your guns, leave this island, let the people have free, peaceful, open elections. Let them decide their own fate!"
they are really quite easy to spot. They don't have the perfect teeth. And most I've met like Moore and think he represents their attitudes. But then again they also think Kevin the sociopathic teenager represents their attitutudes as well.....
Sorry about last link, it should be:
http://ftp.radio4all.net/pub/radio/0814MM_3_PublicQnA_20min_40Kx22_s.mp3
or go to this page for all the audio, where the good news is, as I've just been surprised to discover, that the streaming links also work!! Incredible people there @ Radio4all!!
http://www.radio4all.net/proginfo.php?id=7594
For modem users, sorry, a smaller size for a 52min stereo file is not really feasible, as distortion and aliasing effects would be introduced.
Suggested solution - Go for broadband flatrate and share the connection/cost with flatmates/neighbours using wireless LAN.
If 14MB seems cumbersome, how would you feel about trying to DL the edited video highlights, a 26min DivX clip of apprx 90MB?
However, I think I will re-encode this split up into about 6 files and UL tomorrow to IMC.UK
Will post vid.link ASAP
Padraig:
sorry, it should have read:
This CONSISTED mainly of a resounding VERBAL slap round the head to all POLITICAL PARTIES concerned, as an encouragement to 'shut the fuck up and get over it' before concluding with the appeal "You, the State, representing the people, put down your guns, leave this island, let the people have free, peaceful, open elections. Let them decide their own fate!"
My own understanding of - "You, the State .. etc.", is that it is obviously an appeal to the Brit. establishment to demilitarise and begin phased withdrawal from NI, as an encouragement to the peace-process, as opposed to just whining about disarmament (IRA first, please!) and blocking elections.
Michael Moore attending the West belfast feile was a treat and eye opener for many. Ben elton is a new labour/old tory luvvy mouthpiece who tows Tinpot Tony Blair's party line.
Michael Moore on the other hand has imagination and has consistently and loudly expressed opposition to the War in Iraq and as well as continually highlighting injustice and campaigning for the poor of this world and his own country.
tried IMC.UK, it's busted, will not take this volume/format file.
tried Indy.NYC also, limited to very bad quality/tiny files.
Does anyone know a server where 100MB space available for these video files? Please post addess here or mail me the info if access private
Thanks, BP
on the 56k vs broadband thing - if it were possible to get BB i would most definatley have it. unfortunatley its not available in my area of the sticks (to the best of my knowledge). It sucks, but fuck it.
As for M Moore treating the american working class with contempt. I think the poster made a slight faux pas. Before he stated that Moore was anti-american working class, he says that Moore makes black people 'morally superior'. I'm assuming that the poster means the black working class... therefore our mystery poster doesn't seem to acknowledge that black people are american too.
But if you want to get into race arguments, let me assume the role of a black nationalist and say: "Morals, morals? I don't think the american negro has ever enslaved an entire race of people. Whitey on the other hand."
nice!
Try PJ O Rourke. His comments on America and its way of life leave fatboy Micheal Moore in the beginners leauge.BTW he also has good Leftist credintials,been there seen it, done it on the American left scene. he writes for Rolling Stone as well.Republican Party Reptile had me in stiches.
Moore is just "I hate Bush,the Republicans,America and life in general over there.Yet I am making a fortune on my totally outlandish opinions".Major Yawn! Pity,I think he did an exellent spoof of GM in "Rodger and Me"
[About what happens to his home town,when GM quits the town and his efforts to question the Chairman of GM about this decision]
For other humourous opinions try Hunter S Thompson
or right wing "humour" Rush Limbaugh
Chaos and panic across the east coast of the united states yesterday brought me back to the movie "bowling for Columbine". Yes in this beautiful nation of ours (mine) we must all stand by and protect one another, it is our duty as Americans to look after our neighboor in this time of need.So bolt your doors when you get home , grab that m16 or oozy sub machine gun and thank god for the gun laws of the United States of America because you never know lightning might strike twice.
PJ O' Rourke is a self-congragulatory right wing throwback who is under the impression that he is "cool". I never read such shite as his "Holidays in Hell" effort. Left wing my arse, if he is what passes for left wing in amerika no wonder the place is so totally hopeless.
The United States went to war Afghanistan (and later Iraq) because some nutcases crashed planes into the Twin Towers and the Pentagon. So why the fuss when some guy tries to buy a missile launcher in order to protect his home and family from a further such attack?
It's just crazy.
the chapter on the north particularly.
Hunter S Thompson is great on the other hand. But he could hardly be called 'pro-american'. Generation of Swine is a brilliant book that I read from time to time. Interesting to note also, that his lawyer/friend Oscar Acosta (in the film Fear & Loathing he was Hunter's erstwhile companion), who was a leading voice in the 'brown power' movement, was mysteriously 'disappeared'.
What Moore and Thompson have in common is that they both love america, but both see the death of the 'american dream'. It is of course questionable that this 'dream' ever existed.
Rush Loveswar on the other hand. What a total tool.
From Thompson's ESPN column, Hey Rube
A sad week in America
By Hunter S. Thompson
Page 2 columnist
This is a very bad week for the American nation, and next week will be even worse. The Kansas-Syracuse game was barely over when I learned to my horror that the United States Marines were killing journalists in Baghdad.
Three journalists have died in Baghdad so far, and not one of them was killed by Enemy Fire. They were shot down like dogs by U.S. military personel, killed and wounded and mangled by Americans, who drive American M1 Abrahms battle tanks and eat all-American pie, just like the rest of us. American troops are killing journalists in a profoundly foreign country, under cover of a war being fought for savage, greed-crazed reasons that most of them couldn't explain or even understand.
What the hell is going on here? How could this once-proud nation have changed so much, so drastically, in only a little more than two years. In what seems like the blink of an eye, this George Bush has brought us from a prosperous nation at peace to a broke nation at war. And why are we killing innocent people at point-blank range on the other side of the world -- with big guns and big bombs that kill everything in reach?
Indeed, there is something going on here, Mr. Jones, and you don't know what it is, do you?
Bob Dylan said that, and he is still right, now more than ever. Hell, there is nothing really new about American enforcers -- especially cops -- killing and brutalizing innocent American citizens. It happens with depressing regularity. But at least the bastards used to have the decency to deny it.
That is a big difference, sports fans, and that is why I feel so savagely depressed tonight. When the Pentagon feels free -- and even gleeful -- about killing anybody and Everybody who gets in the way of their vicious crusade for oil, the public soul of this country has changed forever, and professional sports is only a serenade for the death of the American dream.
----------------------
you can read Thompsons articles here
This "power outage" is attributed to "hot weather" unlike the last equivalent losses of power supply [in the 20th century] that were attributed to "oil shortage". Today the USA hsa gone to great lengths to ensure the oil for energy production. But not the water. And as you know oil sits on water.
is it really climate change?
is it really global warming?
When we all went to school back in the 20th century they went to such great lengths to warn us that our planet was heating up. That we were going to have _big problems_.
¿Did you do your homework?
Portugal has lost 5% of its forests to fire in ten days. A bigger area than Leinster and Munster.
Spain likewise is facing the worst forest fires in it's history, and last year's fires were the worst in it's history, and the year before saw the worst fires in it's history.
hmmm.
We are seeing _incrementally_ the worst fires in Europe's history.
We are seeing _incrementally_ the hottest summers in Europe's history.
I don't know if any of you have ever given much thought "illuminati-like" to running the planet. Maybe you played some simcity game?
Cities need water and energy.
The most energy is needed and used by Europe and North America.
To produce energy safely you need water.
France produces 70% of it's energy through it's nuclear reactors. These are mostly located in the sparsely populated Massif Central area of the country. This is for safety reasons. The Massif Central is also the hottest region of the country.
There is at present a water shortage. If you do not cool down a nuclear reactor it overheats and boom de bamby boom.
NYC likewise needs water and energy. The energy consumption of the NY state is amongst the top ten highest on the planet. The water consumption likewise attempts are being made to recycle and develop other methods of obtaining that water in the future. But the added need is now. When such cities lose in such weather their energy and water it is a very clear _sign_ that something is very wrong in the "sparsely populated" regions.
I do not think it unlikely rather I think it very probable that in the next five years either the New England area of the USA or Europe will experience a serious nuclear accident as a result of overheating. And I think many insurance brokers have made the same assumption. So what are they going to do?
and _they_ are not the insurance brokers.
When we were all back in school being told about how shit everything was going to be in the 21st century, and how we really ought do something about it, and how "energy" would be tippy top important, and how trees really were your best friend, TV writers used like push the "oxygen" conspiracy.
"OH we'll all be held ransom by some leftwing politician in Brazil who will cut off our oxygen supply!!!" Not impossible but honestly the most disastrous effects of climate change never got far beyond the mathematicians table. It was always going to be about water. H2O.
oil sits on H2O.
--- The Tale of The Brits Who Swiped 800 Jobs From New York, Carted Off $90 Million, Then Tonight, Turned Off Our Lights [text snipped and replaced by URL by R Isible. Please don't paste entire text if an URL is available.]
whats goin on?
PJ O Rourke summed up the collapse of the communism as being down to the fact that "nobody wanted to wear bulgarian trainers"
Unfotunately PJ has gone from being a funny writer, who wasn't as right wing as he would like to think he was, (Holidays in Hell, Republican Party Reptile, All the trouble in the world) to a sort of american Kevin Myers having to resort to shock tactics to elict some coloumn inches for his books. The last three have been awful and not funny (Eat the rich, Age and Guile, CEO of the sofa).
who was moved to link it to "bowling for columbine" so the thread and it's comments got shifted to this M.Moore story. Weirdly the three comments following it seem to have been interleaved.
Re "blackout story" specifically -- reposting this widely available crap is a disservice to indymedia.ie.
My choice was complete deletion vs. downgrading to a comment on a related story -- as mr.bush was commenting on Mr.Moore's work it seemed that it was appropriate here. Indeed the assertions about gun laws etc are interestingly contradicted if you listen to the report live from NYC by Amy Goodman and others on Democracy Now!: they report that people are having fun drumming and dancing in Times Square and that there is an absence of the horror and "anarchy" that the neo-liberal savage model of human nature predicts. Think of it -- all those crazy gun-toting Americans aren't massacring each other in the streets, instead they're dancing with each other and enjoying the absence of wage-slavery. Check it out at the URL below:
when I said "widely available crap" I was not referring to Palast's work which is excellent. I was referring instead to the media brou-haha about the blackout which is the story-of-the-minute and which every news source is blathering about. Anyway, bad choice of words and I apologise.
They're not really related except in very broad terms. However at least you included a link to one of the best radio shows in existence. There's a related article up on infoshop about the outbreak of anarchy and mutual aid spurred by the power blackout.
the birthrate goes up.
People spontanously help each other, (anarchy at it's best) and then they breed (coz they realise how lovely they really are).
Dream on child. You've obvoiusly never met a psychopath (I have, not pleasant). It only takes one and we have Stalin all over again and nobody to protect us.
When you grow up you'll understand, you've obviously had a very sheltered life.
Psycopath?Talking about yourself again seanin. Takes one to know one. Iosaf a Child? wishful thinking on your part again seanin.
Seanin catch a grip, it seems you're letting yourself get carried away by your fantasies again. Stop it now, look what happened to psychopath paedophile US marine Tobby studabaker.
I am very lovely, but very deadly too.
People have better things to do than have sex, sex is boring.
Fighting and violence is much more exciting and orgasmic than sex.
Only oul fellas/oul dolls worship at the altar of sex, for these boring romantic drivel has beens sex is the be all and end all.
Their whole pathetic life revolves around sex.
Their lives are so dull and mundane, sex is the only little excitement their allowed to experience.
You didn't see Johnny Rotten embracing sex. For original punks and anarchists sex was not the done thing. Violence was.
It was only with the infiltration of cock rock/hard core metal into punk, that we got, women filling into their gender roles, of long haired tart/free love nymph. These gender roles of long haired feminine hippie tart are old fashioned and date back to the masculine macho 1960's. They do not empower women, thus once again through the subversion of punk by cock rock/metal, females found themselves playing the same old backward ancient gender roles.
Nazis=no good in bed. Nazis always have to use sex toys/props/weird lingerie/S&M, because they are impotent and a total flop in bed. Nazi womin are also shite in bed, relying on S&M practises and they don't know how to give themselves pleasure without a man.
Moore has been knocked about in the US by the right-wing pundits and their boot-lickers. There's an interesting defense of him at the libertarian-tech news/discussion site Kuro5hin.
I am unhappily married to a boring fat snobby nazi pimple faced specky fat gut too.
http://www.moorewatch.com/
this is a provisional solution only, but it works
to watch clips, make sure DivX 5.0.5 codec is installed, get windows version here http://download.divx.com/divx/DivX505Bundle.exe
report back if problems
Schalom, BlackPope
The highest percentage that has ever been suggested for psycopaths in the community is 10%.
That figure is based on criminal psychiatry studies in the USA and Japan. A loathsome research project alluded to in a very interesting thread:
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=60719
It is doubtful that all "psycopaths" end up in prison, it is certain for example that many special forces soldiers are psycopaths and that many supposed "leaders" of commerce and business are as well. Research of survivors from accidents such as plane crashes has suggested that of those who survive the people with psycopathic tendancies are the most likely to make the "snap decisions" neccesary to get out of a burning plane.
So if we allow that margin: 10% of the community in power outage are likely to react to stressful situations in a pyscopathic way, the others will be of neurotic response pattern.
Helping your neighbours and yourself by spontaneously forming small non-heirarchial decision making groups is neither neurotic nor psycopathic.
And I have met many psycopaths. Please remember I organised kicking rave parties in both Dublin and London for many years, and as such have seen more than enough foaming at the mouth monsters from hell. I recommend hitting them over the head at the frontal lobe a few times, then a small intra-muscular injected dose of anaesthetic accompanied by poetry. Keats is quite good.
"Oh no go not to Lethe, nor suffer thy pale forehead to be kissed by ruby red wine of proserpine.....oh for in the temple of delights sweet melancholie holds her sovrain shrine!"
Anyway, there are a few thousand people of the "paranoid" disposition who being believers in the Montauk conspiracy theory have pointed out that Aug13 2003 was suggested as a date for "extra-dimensional-time-warp-doings" in the NY state "hidden-mega-secret-electro-zap-zap-spooky-shared-NSA/CIA/FBI/oneworld government-alien base" Montauk back in 1995. That is seven years ago folks.
-----------is it just co-incidence that NYC was left without power on that night!?!?!?!?
WAKE UP AMERICA AND IRELAND!
they're here.
[I'll take the Keats and intra-muscular now]
zzzzzzz.
cheers.
%-)
23
I do believe the phrase "shut the fuc* up" was preceeded by the media's hounding of Moore to be sure and say the IRA should decomission , as a starter to his speech in Belfast.
The rest is to the UK whom he points out as NOT an oppressed people , yet armed, that THEY should decomission and get out of Ireland, which does not belong to them (morally), in the first place. I do hope I recall all you wrote and have adressed it as such.
In other words, " Shut the fuc* up about decommisioning" , get over it. It is clearly a cop out on stalling the elections as they , the UK, loyalists are just perhaps afraid of the outcome of the elections .
Sinn Fein has a hold.
Personally, the fact that entire areas of Catholics are blocked out of the voting registry, somehow, someway, may make the elections not such a success for the Catholic population who have suffered so, despite they are not really a minority at all, but according to polls, comprise not far below 50% of the population according to recent reports.
England has a history of imperialistic control and it fears losing more nations from it , such as they did France and the Republic of Ireland.
Collusion is a strong factor in NI supposedly.
The Brit government says one thing and does the opposite often times in relation to supposedly illegal loyalist paramilitary groups. If the PSNI arent adequately stopping them , and Brit troops often stand by in clear view and allow in example the UDA as they did one time I experienced, set up road blocks and check search cars mostly from the south or whom may be Catholic upon questioning, you may ask yourself, is the Brit government full of shite when it says it is opposed to the illegal paramilitary terrorist group the UDA?
It wants to maintain control of NI at any cost in my opinion.
Joan of Arc once said only violence could rid the English from France.
Well now their worst fear(brit govt) is an election where organisations similar to Sinn Fein may do well.
So, shut the fuc* up about saying the IRA who took up arms to protect themselves from English oppression and without whom the Republic would not have been possible, ( Provisionals), an organisation who has been peaceful ( no i dont count the dissidents such as the Real IRA as they are not approved of by Sinn Fein Nor the Provisionals nor myself), peaceful in showing good faith in recent years, , shut up about telling them to lay down arms when it is the US itself causing violence and all we in Ireland are asking is for elections.
Elections are what the UK are really afraid of, not the IRA ( provisionals ,not its dissident offshoots, the IRA by the way are not classified as a terrorist organisation and with good reason, they are past that and have accomplished enough to see that peace is the only way,).
Unfortunately with the poor reception to the concept of peace by the UK and many of its supporters, organisations using IRA in part of its name , i.e. the Real Ira are seeing no other way but war again as peace is regressing on the counterparts.
But at least he has a grasp on human rights. ffs the man cannot know details of all nations but he can see the basic issues.
the people need to take back control. period.
Moore knows what the hell he is doing , i grew up 30 years in the states before moving to Belfast. So yes , he has a place anywhere in the world where people need courage to speak up and the basic mind to see when they are being lied to and used
Thank God for inspiring people like Michael Moore.
Yes, the UK should shut the fuk up as Moore said , using the IRA having arms ( Ireland's only true defense army for nationalists), because they aren't attacking ANYone. The UK and paramilitary groups are. The Provo IRA is sitting in defense.
Asking them to lay down all arms , after so many years of oppression of the Irish people by Brit forces is insane. The IRA Provos are the only reason the south broke free of the UK.
Now is the time for diplomacy and elections. as Moore said "OH NO! WHAT ARE YOU AFRAID OF, ELECTIONS??"
Blair keeps pushing back the elections. Now tell me that is not repression.
Michael Moore is a media figure, he lives in the states, so he can get away with shouting the truth. When we do that here , we risk death.
He should be here more if the US were not in such a fascist state.
Can't handle the truth can you? The site was rubbish and the forum was shut .
What is this site for? Tie wearing , deluded ex rednecks? Piss off, dreamer.
he makes a film about the "gun culture" [Whatever the Fuck that is!]in America.Where he lampoons responsible ownership.Yet he says it is all right for a terrorist organization to keep their arms for defence .Fucking fat American liberal hyprocrite! No wonder even his liberal pals booed his Oscar speech.
Engineer Fröhlich Arrested In Vienna
By Robert Faurisson
June 23, 2003
On Saturday, June 21, chemical engineer (Dipl. Ing.) Wolfgang Fröhlich, 51, was arrested in Vienna, Austria, and taken to prison. His trial could last two days, as the public prosecutor wishes, or as long as two or three weeks, as his attorney, Dr. Herbert Schaller, hopes.
For seven years, Fröhlich had sent to jurists, members of parliament, politicians and journalists, thousands of copies of his writings, in which he says that the alleged wartime Nazi extermination gas chambers are, as he put it, a lie. Remarkably, he suffered no real legal consequences. Then, following the publication in 2001 of his 368-page file, Die Gaskammer Lüge (“The Gas Chamber Lie”), the authorities decided to arrest him. But he went into hiding, and the police apparently made no serious effort to find him.
Fröhlich’s arrest on June 21 may, perhaps, be connected with a statement in Vienna two days earlier by Rudolph Giuliani. On June 19 the former mayor of New York, speaking as a US government representative, told participants at a two-day Conference on Anti-Semitism, organized in Vienna by the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE), that Revisionism should be stopped. In an article published a day earlier in The New York Times, “How Europe Can Stop the Hate,” he said, referring to officials of the European states: “Making sure their citizens have an honest understanding of the Holocaust is vital, as revisionist viewpoints put us at risk of a repetition of race-based genocide.” On June 16 and 17, President George W. Bush criticized “revisionist history” and “revisionist historians” for expressing doubts about the official version of the US war against Iraq.
In a way, Ernst Zündel and Wolfgang Fröhlich may be the first revisionist victims of Bush and Giuliani.
In January 1944, President Franklin D. Roosevelt, manipulated by Henry Morgenthau, Jr., his Treasury Secretary, created the War Refugee Board (WRB), which fabricated its infamous report on the “German extermination camps — Auschwitz and Birkenau.” In September 2001, President George W. Bush, manipulated by Paul Wolfowitz, his Deputy Defense Secretary, created the Office of Special Plans (OSP), which fabricated untrue reports about Iraqi Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD). The OSP is headed by Abram Shulsky. The OSP individuals who are responsible for the WMD reports call themselves “the Cabal” (from “cabala”). (This has been acknowledged by Seymour M. Hersh in The New Yorker, May 12, 2003, and by Jacques Isnard in Le Monde, June 7, 2003, p. 7.)
Similar lies. Similar liars. Similar beneficiaries. Similar victims.
Therefore, it seems, a similar Revisionism is needed.
Note: On June 17, the French daily Le Monde published an ironic front-page article entitled (in French): “Saddam was evil, therefore he had prohibited weapons.” To Le Monde I sent a one-sentence letter, meant for publication: “Hitler was evil, therefore he had gas chambers and gas vans.” My brief letter was not published.
...Thats my view (I'm a prod) of loyalist paramilitaries these days. The IRA is not actively violent at present, the RIRA is, but intelligence within the British and Irish governments can work to prevent their attacks. What does Ulster need defending from now?
Terrorism may not always secure it's goal, but it always causes compromise and as it has been rife on either side of the religeous divide, so both sides must compromise their goal.
We need now for the British and Irish gov. to step back and let Northern Ireland stand alone, and it's people; diverse in what they don't want, united in what they do (peace) can build a country on the politics of many no's, one yes.
look at this photo.
http://nyc.indymedia.org:8081//front.php3?article_id=18337