Milosevic is Dead

by Lady Bracknell Sun Mar 19, 2006 16:21

This is a translation of the speech mentioned in my comments above:

excerpt:
Serbia has never had only Serbs living in it. Today, more than in the past, members of other peoples and nationalities also live in it. This is not a disadvantage for Serbia. I am truly convinced that it is its advantage. National composition of almost all countries in the world today, particularly developed ones, has also been changing in this direction. Citizens of different nationalities, religions, and races have been living together more and more frequently and more and more successfully.
(Link: http://globalresistance.com/articles/jared/milosaid.html)

The translation appears to be provided by Jared Israel, who runs the site 'The Emperor’s New Clothes' ( http://www.tenc.net/ )

I can't personally vouch for the accuracy of Mr Israel's translation, not being a speaker of the Serbian language, but have in the past found his work to be both accurate and fair. Which is certainly NOT something one could accuse the mainstream media of.

More info from Jared Israel:

http://www.emperors-clothes.com/yugo.htm

by Lady Bracknell - SMERSCH Tue Mar 14, 2006 22:57

Pat C:
that sounds suspiciouslly like irvings demand for proof that hitler knew about the hollocaust.

Pat, do you always try to smear those who offer a differing viewpoint, by associating them with the dreaded and oh-so-dastardly label of 'Holocaust Denier'?

I notice that you were totally unable to offer any of the type of evidence Billy Williamson asked for. And yet you felt the need to smear him in your very uninformative reply.

tsk tsk, surely you can do better than that Pat

Here's a thought - why not try and answer the question he posed rather than attacking the messenger with baseless smear tactics?

One of the main charges the media trot out about Slobo was that he gave a speech at what's known as 'Kosovo Field', site of a famous Serb victory in the 13th century (I think, I may be wrong on the date). The media charge that it was here he first started to launch his racist attacks on non-Serbs. Yet I've met a Serb or two, and even a Macedonian, who all claim Slobo said the exact opposite of what the media has claimed he said.

thing is, since I don't speak Serbian, I can't confirm it either way. But I do know the media has lied to us before, whereas I have no such suspicions regarding the Serb or two, or indeed even the Macedonian, who've informed me otherwise. Indeed I found Serbs of my aquaintance, Macedonians too, to be quite honest, which is more than I can say for the mainstream media.

Btw: Pat, do you speak Serbian? Maybe you could translate the speech and confirm/refute the charge for us?

by Algernon - SMERSH Tue Mar 14, 2006 22:33

come on iosaf, I'm drawing a complete blank here.

was it JPOne? huh, huh???

don't tease

by iosaf Tue Mar 14, 2006 19:45

on the toxicologist frenzy for a drop of the dead's blood, I am disappointed that no-one has yet made the connection, and reminded the readership which other "sudden deaths" were caused by "conflicting" medication & indeed for the "constitutional experts" who pop up at times like this, its a link worth making. Rack your brains and remember. (& no I'm not telling you. I get a kick out of knowing sooner or later one of you'll make the connection, and for the moment the spooky supercomputers who analyse our cyber communications have already done the spider data searches). The Russians have asked for a second autopsy & they just arrived
http://en.rian.ru/russia/20060314/44286761.html Oh its all very XIX century, the big bear growls at the Austrians that they can't be trusted on EU balkan affairs. And behind it all there is actually a wee problem now with the international court of justice and the tribunal at the Hague.
The problem being that several very sought and important defendents have died in custody. Europe is distinct from the USA in many ways .:. which I am bound to defend. We do not accept the death penalty. So when defendents die in custody be it at the lowest level of a (just for example) south London cop shop, or at this very high level Hague international court of criminal justice.
so...

let's remind ourselves who doesn't recognise the IHCT or really want it about, and has so long skulldugerried to fk it up -
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=70150
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Show_trials
and yes the people who want to fuck it up prefer this way of doing things-
http://www.indymedia.ie/article/72529

By the way this reminds me of Victor the Ukranian C/Fhttp://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=68497 whom we remember the KGB were alledged of poisoning, not enough to kill the leader of the orange faction, but just enough to disfigure him and get everyone especially Americans asking questions, and the final answer was - he had been given a dose of agent orange which as well remember was the illegal chemical used by the USA on Vietnam. Oh yes, as I've always said, a warped sense of humour helps to get your head around the spooky covert dirty trick operations crew. I suppose at end, on the "spooky blackmarket" (not completely unrelated to all those guns, shooters, and hi tech weaponry which started the whole Balkans war) samples of Milosvic's blood will fetch a high price.

by Billy Williamson - none Tue Mar 14, 2006 14:59

These states did not exist when Slobo was elected head of the Yugoslav state. Interestingly serving ministers in the Bosnian state like Sackerbie Foreign Minister carried a US passport. Slobo was carrying out his duty as head of state to defend it.

by pat c Tue Mar 14, 2006 14:48

"I have not heard one factual allegation yet that links Slobo with the promotion of slaughter in the Balkans. Maybe the contributors can help me here."

that sounds suspiciouslly like irvings demand for proof that hitler knew about the hollocaust. slobo was head of a state that invaded other states and helped serbs in croatia and bosnia by arming them. thats how he contrbuted to ethnic cleansing.

i agree with you about the US and their interest in seeing yugoslavia divided and setting up freemarket states. that however does not constitute a defence of either slobo or ethnic cleansing.

by Billy Williamson Tue Mar 14, 2006 14:38

Many of the contributors start from the premise that Slobo is responsible for the slaughter and mayhem in the former Yugoslavia. An enormous task for one person. A better one might be that the US and European states encouraged and aided the non-Serb nationalities to set up free market statelets. The Americans maintained military supplies to the Croats and Bosnians in spite of a UN ban on military support. Even serving US officers were with the Croatian army during the attack on the Krainja. Germany's foreign minister Herr Gensher welcomed the fact that Germany was supporting the same anti-communist alliance in the Balkans as it had in 1942. I have not heard one factual allegation yet that links Slobo with the promotion of slaughter in the Balkans. Maybe the contributors can help me here.

by Lady Bracknell - SMERSCH Mon Mar 13, 2006 23:17

yes it appears they're working on a wonderful little conspiracy-theory that Slobo was taking some meds that affected the efficacy of the other meds he was taking for his quite serious heart-condition. The clever little serb that he was.

All so he could bluff the tribunal into sending him to Moscow for 'treatment', in order to abscond while in Moscow. What a conniving little fellow they are trying to paint him out to be.

When the mainstream media starts peddling conspiracy theories (We just report the 'facts', ma'am, just the facts) you just know there's a lot more going on then they are telling you. Usually they're trying to cover-up some other unpalatable 'facts'.

I always found it curious that old Dougy Hurd, ex-British Foreign Minister, and one the main-men who helped broker the Dayton agreement, left office very shortly thereafter, to act as the representative of the money-men (Nat-West?) loaning tons of cash to Slobo and his posse for the Kosovo war.

See: http://www.guardian.co.uk/serbia/article/0,,515442,00.html

excerpt:
Serbian government officials are convinced that Lord Hurd, the former foreign secretary, played a key role in shoring up Slobodan Milosevic in power by mediating a billion-dollar privatisation deal which provided the indicted war criminal with his war chest for his Kosovo campaign in 1998-99.
A central element in Mr Milosevic's defence strategy in the Hague will be to disclose the long list of western statesmen and officials who were eager to negotiate with him in the 1990s.

curiouser and curiouser : http://www.ruthannzaroff.com/wonderland/curiouser.htm

by hmmmmmmm Mon Mar 13, 2006 17:04

the imminent toxicologists are clamouring for a drop of dead milosvic blood. One Dr Ughe has suggested that medication the serbian was on may have neutralised his other medication leaving his heart un-protected.
Great theory. its been used for quite a few suspicious deaths. I wonder will people dot the dots.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4801292.stm

by Lady Bracknell - Smersch Sun Mar 12, 2006 16:16

To lose one accused Serbian Warlord, Mr. Worthing, may be regarded as a misfortune; to lose at least 3 looks like carelessness.,

Since the tribunal began its work, 15 suspects have died.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1418304.stm

One, Slavko Dokmanovic, committed suicide in the detention centre in 1998.
http://www.serbia-info.com/news/1999-12/24/16415.html

According to official reports, convicted war criminal Milan Babic committed suicide on 6th of March 2006 in his cell at the United Nations Detention Unit in Scheveningen.
http://www.b92.net/english/news/index.php?&nav_category=2

by c murray - at home Sun Mar 12, 2006 10:03 dotliath at gmail dot com n/a 0877765289

I find it repugnant that words such as ' mixed reaction' to his death are
being bandied about. His unfettered and amoral lust for power, his spectacular failures in vision and his insanity are indicative of our failure and the media's failure to recognise that many of our world leaders are completely insane.
From Blair's 'Blood oath' to Bush, Bush's trite and unseemly lack of grasp of anything pertaining to politcs or reality. We watch Mugabe, and we are part of the history that they are creating. I read this morning's Observor the Milosvecic death
was juxtaposed with the Death of Tom Fox in Iraq. A Christian activist, found with a bullet hole in his temple and marks of torture on his body. A tiny paragraph, whilst the legend of the butcher of Belgrade is being made as we speak. our focus on the negative sells newspapers . RIP Tom Fox. I am not buying the papers again.

We should be forcing the issues of recognition for Fox, Corrie, Hassan, and all the others who have tryed to clean up the mess made by the puppet dictators.

by Paul Sun Mar 12, 2006 03:29

Iosaf

Love your attitude but it is way too cynical, Milosevic was an opportunist but he could never have done what he did without an underlying support.

This support was based on historical as well as economic reasons.

Oftentimes such support comesfrom the least compromidsing sections of society , the fanatics who believe what the preach and those who have nothing to lose (and may even gain...).

Even if we say he was a fecker who was out for himself how did he bring a large section of the serbian nation with him are they sheep or did they have some right on their side.

Paul

.

by Geoff Sun Mar 12, 2006 01:24

Wanton abuse of "some" indymedia.ie users has been edited out here

Slobodan Milosevic dead

Yep. The errie thing is I just learnt about his death while listening to Death in June on the computer, their track 'Satan's Feast'. The real trippy one.Death in June were one of the first foreign acts to play in Croatia while it's people were bombed by both Serb irregulars from the self declared Republica Srpska Krajina and by the Jugoslav Air force.Literally. At the end of the live CD of a gig of theirs they did there, one hears an explosion in the distance and Doug saying "A bomb..." Slobodan was an opportunistic bastard, making his way to fame by crudley siding with Kosovo's Serb minorety who were complainig of harrasment by the Kosovar Albanians. Kosovo had always been an ancient Serbian province, where some of Serbia's most ancient churches were located. The Turks invaded in 1389 and then forcibly removed the Serbs threee hundred years later to the north, where Serbia lies today.

Serbia regained Kosovo in 1913, and bloodshed had occured there interminably since. The Albanian poulation there got bigger and bigger, and by the nineties was 90/P>

Slobodan's ham fisted approach to the situation was a result of his greasy political manouvering. Under Tito, Kosovo did not receive the same Federal status as Croatia, Serbia, Bosnia, Slovenija, and Macedonia, but the Albanians there got close enough to that, being equipped with their own police force, and great autonomy, on a level with Hungarian Vojvodinija in Northern Serbia. Milosevic, after addressing a rally of Serbs in 1989 on the 600th anniversary of the Battle of Kosovo Polije, told them "You'll never be oppossed again".

After this, the province underwent stringent reversal of reform, lost it's autonomy, and, during the Croatian and Bosnian wars, was settled with Serb refugees.All this series of events would lead to the formation of the KLA, who engaged in terrorist actions and eventually brought about the war in Kosovo, which got NATO involved in 1999.

This is just one example of Milosevic's ham fisted oppurtunistic manouveurs that resulted in genocide through out the Balkans. His trial was meant to bring to historical record and documentation the extent of his criminality in the genocide of the nineties, will now never fully disclose these facts, thanks to his death.

We do know he met with Tjudman of Croatia in 1992 to discuss the carve up of Bosnia. Alija Izetbegovic was once told by Milosevic at Dayton in 1995 that the Serb snipers on the hills of Sarajevo were cowards for having attacked the city like they did, despite the backing they received from JNA troops,("protecting Yugoslav citizens").The State Broadcaster in Serbia never highlighted the atrocities carried out by Serb irregulars from Serbia proper.

Milosevic is not on record as ostensibally having the same crude natinalist rethoric as say Seselej, (Fascist Serb politician of the Serbian Rights Party). He always spoke of Yugoslav interests.

His record, that basically of a carte blanche for atrocity, though, speaks volumes. The backdoor dealing we wil learn more about. His death, hopefully, brings to a close a dark chapter unprecedented in European history not seen since World War 11.

This death ceratinly closes a chapter for me, but I'll still have my own prolougue. I have been to the Balkans three times, but still have yet to get it togeter and learn Serb,Croatian and Bosnian.(Used to be called Serbo-Croat). First went to the place in 1999. Visited Sarajevo. About the size of Limerick. Has that magickalfeel of Central and Southern Europe. Still have to go to Kosovo and Macedonia. Seen all the other former Yugoslav regions. I love that place. I hate what that guy let happen to it beforehand.Now he is dead. Hope the people of those countries can finally move on.

by email Sat Mar 11, 2006 22:34

THE TRIAL ENDS -

Those of us involved in the campaign to defend President Slobodan Milosevic have been deeply saddened to hear of his tragic death following upon his indictment and incarceration for crimes committed by NATO primarily on behalf of the military/industrial complex of the West.

We extend our deepest sympathy to Mr Milosevic's family and friends and assure them that there are such people who have long recognised the enormity of the lie inflicted on a man who had the courage to stand up to the combined power of the profoundly inhumane and ruthless forces of the West.

As Franz Kafka said with his genius for prophesy ....

"in our time, not the murderer but the victim will be considered guilty".

International Committee to Defend Slobodan Milosevic (Irish Section)
086 1963134
cdsmireland@eircom.net
http://www.icdsmireland.org

by io Sat Mar 11, 2006 22:16

RTé and all state news aparata in Europe are saying "reaction is mixed". don't leave it to me. give your mixed reaction. Where did all the guns in europe come from? When was the last bloody yes bloody war in europe? Where did the stealth aircraft get shot down? Surely the barstool military types remember that. Earlier today on another thread, i left a comment and quoted myself quoting Horace the Latin poet, (being the arrogant type I am) dismissing someone's thoughts on islam. where do the majority of European indiginous muslims live? Why is Macedonia not Macedonia but F.Y.R.O.M? Why does Austria want the Croats in EU but the Serbs or Turks no? Diruit, aedificat, mutat quadratarotundis- sed disjecta membra.It is too late to call God to arms. Thats because among the normal shite of living today, going to a party with older family rearing types, discussing a horrible prisoner issue and how we raise funds for the lawyers to appeal a retributive sentance on a bunch of kids, I like many (but not all) remembered March 11. the latin of Horace means "He changes, he builds, he turns square things into round". I headed a comment on the 11th of July after the London bombings both here on imc ireland and on a very lengthy series of mails and articles sent to England and imc uk. http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=70137&con...14292 I added "sed disjecta membra" = the dismembered remain.

Have we forgotten? I suspect we have. Just as we appear to have forgotten the orphanages of Ceausescu's Romania. Sure they've grown up now, polite well balanced kids, very fertile, all over the place. Good workers. Very popular. they invented bird flu you know. RTé tells us tonight that if there is an economic slump, maybe if the reds come into power in Eire, the workers will suffer!!!! http://www.indymedia.ie/article/69555#comment105936

Spain was terrorised 2 years ago. enough said. Ireland was terrorised to point of complacent complicity. Sin é. The whole balkans was terrorised a little over 15 years ago. Irish people went. unofficially, and officially. The first garda contigent sent on peace keeping. Its our EUFOR gig. Irish people came back mad. Some bad Irish people tried to score arms and fkd it up. Oh there were lots of arms about. Maybe Sloba knew who sent them. They are still about.
Thats the thing with arms, you don't decommission them, they get used again and they're valuable.

Please leave a comment. for the sake of the absent. for the sake of the dismembered.
http://iosaf.allotherplaces.org/?p=110

The Sarcasm drips.
Like Blood.

Mir = Mir.
Serbian is the same language as Croatian
is leabhartar teanga ar chúl an hEorpach
nár thuig aon fhear ach Aesop
is tá sé siúd sa chré anois.

is tá sé siúd sa chré anois.

by ipsi - (iosaf) Sat Mar 11, 2006 20:20

remember the victims.
bury them with dignity.
remember the children.
raise them in peace.

remember sarajevo.
remember how many guns and bullets were sent to that war, & how many there still are:
remember Dubrovnik.
remember that both sides were as evil as the other.
remember who is the €U president - remember Austria.

Bok dobra jutro! izvninite Hvala mir!
remember when both serbian and croat were the same language.
Mir = Mir = Peace