Gormley wins - with 36% of vote

by Oportunity Lost Thu Sep 06, 2007 18:29

Ah, did you really believe him??

by Opportunity Knocks Thu Sep 06, 2007 16:29

Last night's decision by DCC to give the go-ahead on Poolbeg incinerator under his brief in his constituency ought be seen as nothing else than confirmation that minister is powerless & his rhetoric toothless. Of his pre-election manifesto we all agree nothing remains, of his post-cabinet appointment declarations- what do we have?
one feeble gurgling on chewing gum & one utterly laughable bit of tough talking on ensuring the Tara motorway will have no motels & now to the delight of FF & FG - "no incinerators".

Let the nickname "gummy gormley" stick. But now we ought measure the stature of Mr Gilmore by this very same yardstick after all he is about to pass from spokesman on the environment to leadership of the Irish Labour party. I noted that the Irish Indepedent passed one of my linguistic semantic tests in today's issue by describing yesterday's UK chimera decision as "animal human mixing breakthrough". and also their delight in noting the toothlessness of Gummy Gormley & how pro-incineration man FF Noel Dempsey, who we may think of as the Satanic prince who brought the slimey Greens to their nemesis in both portfolios of environment and transport suggests the "anti-incinerator" lobby "believe in the Paul Daniels solution to waste. http://www.independent.ie/national-news/gormley-sidelin....html
Paul Daniels being an English conjuror of certain reknown who boasted of his promiscuity (claiming over 1,000 partners) in his autobiography and is credited with very right wing views on unemployment, the dole, dossers etc. Very FF. it's all done with mirrors - no? Well most of it is, but quite a few conjuror tricks are done by deception, slight of hand & nearly always rely on distraction.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Daniels ..........now you see the Green Party - now you don't...........what have we here? oh look - it's the same slime as ever.

by Jim O'Sullivan Thu Sep 06, 2007 13:38

"Its not that it is acceptable – that is not the point."

It very much is the point. A politician that touts for votes on issues is dishonest if when elected he/she fails to honour the committments given.

"Politicians and would-be politicians should not promise unrealistic things to their supporters - that is the main lesson."

There is nothing unrealistic about Green promises/policies

"For the supporters the message is be much more discerning and less naive"

The electorate can only accept what they are told are the core values and policies of those canvassing for their votes.It is utterly ridiculous to suggest that politics in Ireland is now reduced to the stage where the electorate have to guess which politicians are telling the truth or are telling lies and it most certainly is not acceptable that that situation obtains.

" Much of the more extreme left wing, environmental and republican politics is entirely divorced from reality and could not be implemented under any circumstances."

This is just wishful thinking and not worthy of comment other than to point out that the PD's have an extreme political position too.

by Sceptic Thu Sep 06, 2007 13:14

WHATS THE POINT OF ELECTIONS PREY TELL, IF THIS DISHONESTY IS ACCEPTABLE?

Its not that it is acceptable – that is not the point. Politicians and would-be politicians should not promise unrealistic things to their supporters - that is the main lesson. For the supporters the message is be much more discerning and less naive. Much of the more extreme left wing, environmental and republican politics is entirely divorced from reality and could not be implemented under any circumstances.

by PR needed Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:24

For the second time in the new environment minister's term of office he has indicated his powerlessness.

With regard to Tara:- 'My hands are tied'
With regard to Poolbeg:-'The Minister is not allowed to comment legally on the issue and is powerless
in the decision making process'

Interesting, I always thought the big wage packet, the office and the power was what attracted the
bureaucratic type to office.

John Gormley TD, Minister for the Environment will not intervene in the granting of licence for the
creation of Ireland's first incinerator in Poolbeg- he is powerless in the matter. Poolbeg is located
in the D.S.E constituency.

http://www.environ.ie

[it probably feels ok to be stiched up, but having lost two green councillors in the locals
and no home base to work from ,come 2009 , hopefully
there will be anit-incinerator lobbies taking the local government seats]

by Jim O'Sullivan Thu Sep 06, 2007 08:37

Sceptic tells us,

"Gormley has had to face the realities that it is not right or practical or feasible or defendable to stick to prior positions on Shannon, Tara or Poolbeg. It’s a grown up thing. Its not betrayal its that the positions were unrealistic in the first place."

So we are now down to this level. Politicians can tell the electorate any story before an election and when elected do the complete opposite. Whats the point of elections prey tell, if this dishonesty is acceptable?
It is not a "grown up thing" it is telling people lies and you or anybody else should not be encouraging this scurrilous behaviour. Democracy itself is being undermined.

by Sceptic Wed Sep 05, 2007 22:01

Some people can’t get over that there is an ocean of difference between being an opposition party or a street protestor and being in Government. When you arrive in Government you realise that there are real and practical problems and issues to be dealt with and the answers have nothing to do with the irresponsible nostrums you have been mouthing for your career prior to then. Gormley has had to deal with this reality. Fundies on the outside can still wallow in shrill opposition to this and that. Gormley has had to face the realities that it is not right or practical or feasible or defendable to stick to prior positions on Shannon, Tara or Poolbeg. It’s a grown up thing. Its not betrayal its that the positions were unrealistic in the first place.

by C Murray Wed Sep 05, 2007 19:05

The contract has been signed for the Poolbeg incinerator in the constituency of the
Green Party Leader and newly minted Minister for Environmental destruction.
I wonder if his hands will be again tied in the issue of waste management and PR?

Interestingly the Greens were perfectly willing to sign onto the estimates which split DCC
and led to the imprisonment of Dail TD Joe Higgins, (this is called dropping political
principle at local level). There will no doubt be a press release from the Department
of the Environment on the subject of dioxins, CPO's, aggressive local pro-incinerator
focus groups and the heavy traffic that will go through residential areas where people who
do not command a huge salary and pension have been fighting this issue for many years.

http://www.environ.ie

by Una Ball Wed Jul 18, 2007 19:00

The Green Party have a very low membership. In both the recent Conference and this ballot the turnout figures has been low. I think this is a reflection of the low level of Party membership. I would say there are a hard-core of inactive "paper members" that are in reality not proper members. The real membership of the Greens is about 800. This puts them in comparison with the smaller left-wing parties.

by billy idle Wed Jul 18, 2007 17:47

No wonder Ireland has so many complaints against it at EU level for wanton cultural and environmantal abuse. Ignorant phillistines like John will cost the country dear in terms of fines, damage to tourism, our international reputation, degradation of natural resources etc.

by bj Wed Jul 18, 2007 17:35

"it seems that the majority of Green members have backed their leadership in going into government" -

Can the same be said about the electorate who voted Green in the general election? I don't think so.
They are the voters who count the most in the long run.
Labour suffered through coalition with FF, so, ultimately, did the P.Ds. The Greens are about to learn a costly lesson.
Pity that the real losers will be the environment and the underdogs.

by ExGreen Wed Jul 18, 2007 17:22

After the greens orchestrated their little fake indignant walkout sleight of hand which moved the vote to mid week, followed by their immediate slimy slither back into talks, followed by their discarding of everything they stood for including tara, rossport, anti co-location, etc etc to get a nice cushy well paid mute mudguard position with fianna fail, I think that most party members had ,in despair, flushed their membership cards down the toilets (in a most un green fashion!) and hence were unable to vote without them.

by John Boy Wed Jul 18, 2007 17:04

Considering the amount of supposed Green people that expressed disgust etc at the Greens going in with FF, it seems a large amount of them voted both for the party to join FF and for Gormley to be the new leader.

Surely more would have voted for McKenna and considering her high profile opposition to that (and apparent support amongst the 'true' Greens for this stance) then you'd imagine that the 600 that didnt vote as an expression of disillusionment were either incredibly stupid in not voting for her or they just didnt care enough to vote for her.

Either way, it seems that the majority of Green members have backed their leadership in going into government both in the vote to do so and the vote for Gormley as leader.

by EA Blair - - Wed Jul 18, 2007 10:49

'The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.' (George Orwell)

Ahernia

Gormless

by agreed Wed Jul 18, 2007 10:12

JohnBoy is right,

how can the poster state that the 600 who didnt vote are expressing their alienation, typical spin merchants as John Boy said they could have bothered because they dont care and neither do we,

This country needs infrastructure Tara had its day

by JOhn Boy Wed Jul 18, 2007 09:38

Nice piece of spin:

"expressed their alienation by abstaining (600) in the postal ballot"

Could also read: "didn't bother their holes voting".

by Green Fairy Wed Jul 18, 2007 00:03

Methinks it's time for a new environmental party to emerge, seeing as the Greens have turned distinctly snot coloured. Perhaps those unhappy members will do the decent thing and withdraw from Gormless' band of turncoats

by men in the Dail Tue Jul 17, 2007 20:41

Nothing changes, the Greens are continuity FF.
After many years in the Dail they finally got themselves a woman TD and another grey
haired male leader. Hooray!