Gardaí shot in the North Inner City

by Sean Sun Sep 30, 2007 14:49

I expected to see more people criticise the Gardai over Lusk, which would be both pitiful and as sad a day for this country as the shooting of a guard on traffic duty.

The two shot in Lusk were low-lives armed with guns and the lowest of the low. That no one innocent was killed/injured is the main thing.

I can understand the need to clarify things but to start shining the spotlight on the guards involved as though it was they who were the criminals is a travesty.

by dublin north inner city Sun Sep 30, 2007 12:43

To link a shooting of a garda and the events in rossport and lusk is disturbing to me. The garda in question was doing is job, attempting to arrest scum. Its actions like that carried out by the injured Garda that make people respect the garda’s.

Instead of pointing are fingers at rossport and lusk, we should be calling for the more gardai in high risk areas such as Dublin’s north inner city. I believe that should mean garda’s being taken out of rossport. The people who live in the north inner city who have no connection to crime, live in fear and are supposed to relie on the garda to protect them.

Now I don’t have much time for the garda’s myself. But I definitely see a reason for them and I believe we all should be campaigning for them to; A: do their job the way they are supposed to. B: that they get the right resources to do there job correctly.

by Nodin Fri Sep 28, 2007 23:42

At a wild guess michael, you didn't comment because you know fuck all about it. I suggest we end this here, as we've drifted way off topic.

by Michael Martin Fri Sep 28, 2007 21:54

By far too early to jump to any conclusions. The 'Jena 6' case is far from over. All or some group members still will stand trial for the crime they have been accused of.. But they have been released on bail on a legal technicality. Therefore a guilty verdict may still be on the cards, vindicating the beleaguered DA.. The inconclusiveness of this case is the reason why I didn't comment on the 'Jena 6' in my previous reply, since it can not be used yet as a base for an argument for or against an elected police force / DA.

by Nodin Fri Sep 28, 2007 21:23

Michael, I see your reading comprehension is still not passing muster - Reread the passage, noting the following sentence -
"Worse still, when the local of the equivalent of the AG is elected, the two run in tandem to play to the lowest common denominator. ""

Was it not an elected "DA" trying to prove his credentials who went for the maximum penalty in that case? Was it not an elected DA that went for the attempted murder charge in the regards to the Jena 6?

"I am not saying that an elected police force will be totally above corruption, but at least the people living in the community have some democratic control over their police force, something we do not enjoy here in Ireland, or anywhere in Europe."

Yes, and having seen the travesty that results, I can heartily say we're lucky.

by Michael Martin Fri Sep 28, 2007 15:34

Quote from previous comment. ".....or that of the mother serving two years for serving her sons and their friends beer at their home....."

Law enforcement agencies, elected by local people or appointed by state agencies, do not make the laws , but only enforce them. In the U.S. it is an offence to serve alcoholic drinks to anybody under 21, even in the privacy of their own homes. And police officers simply have to enforce existing legislation. And that the woman was sentenced to two years in jail is not the fault of the arresting officers, but rather of the judge who convicted her. So you can't blame the cops for this.
I am not saying that an elected police force will be totally above corruption, but at least the people living in the community have some democratic control over their police force, something we do not enjoy here in Ireland, or anywhere in Europe.

by Nodin Fri Sep 28, 2007 14:29

."I would suggest creating a police force based on the model of the U.S. Sheriff's Department, where high-ranking officers have to contest an election every time there is a change of government."

As Mr Farouk has pointed out, that system has led to the most vile and reprehensible form of law enforcement imaginable. Worse still, when the local of the equivalent of the AG is elected, the two run in tandem to play to the lowest common denominator. One only has to look to the recent case of the Jena six, or that of the mother serving two years for serving her sons and their friends beer at their home.

And yes, my full sympathy go to the Garda in the case. Regardless of the uses the state has put others to, this man was doing his duty, in the face of the kind of scum that are unfortunately a feature of modern urban life. As for Lusk - in other nations they would have been given far less chance than they were here. You can have sympathy for lives destroyed by dysfunction and drugs without blaming the cops for the tragic results.

by Khalid Farouk Wed Sep 26, 2007 20:22

A US styl;e elected Sheriff unfortunately would do little to stop cop brutality. You just have to llok at the US where some of the most backward racist brutal police in the world are.

The reason the Gardai and all police forces don't act in the interests of ordinary people is because in the last analysis the role of the Police in a capitalist state is to protect property and the profits of the powerful and wealthy. Genuine democratic policing can only happen when capitalism itself is dismantled as the ruling class will always use a 'body of armed men' to do its dirty work.

by Michael Martin Tue Sep 25, 2007 21:40

I will never condone random attacks carried out by criminal thugs against law enforcement personnel. But speaking as a person involved with various campaigns and causes, I am only too well aware of the fact that An Garda Siochana (and police forces in other jurisdictions) are being used as mercenary force by those who pull the strings of "our" government.
Therefore a number of Garda reforms are needed. I would suggest creating a police force based on the model of the U.S. Sheriff's Department, where high-ranking officers have to contest an election every time there is a change of government. Also, the power of hiring and sacking of law enforcement personnel the Department for Justice currently holds should be handed over to the various city/town mayors or elected members of the relevant County Councils. If those cops responsible for the terror against the people of Rossport would have to canvass in that community in the run up to the next election in order to get their jobs back, I am sure they would think twice before subjecting the people of Rossport to such a degree of brutalization!

by Jacqueline Fallon Tue Sep 25, 2007 21:18

I don't believe any reasonably sane person could possibly agree that shooting an unarmed traffic garda on a motorbike was justified - it was not! I am no fan of An Garda Síochána as I believe it to be an extremely corrupt organisation and very abusive of its powers ('many thanks' to that Garda who handed me an abortion leaflet at a republican rally!), but I totally condemn the shooting of this traffic garda who was after all only doing a day's work - unarmed.

With regard to the Lusk case, if a warning was given to the armed robber and the armed robber failed to take heed of this warning and instead pointed a gun at a garda, then I believe the garda was justified in shooting him in order to protect himself - you can hardly expect him to stand there with his gun and not to use it and take the bullet - that would be akin to suicide. People who go about the streets with a gun on their person know that there is every likelihood someday that they'll confront someone else with a bigger and better gun and that he/she could be shot dead.

Unfortunately, Ireland seems to be heading in the direction of the US, albeit on a very small scale, with all these drive-by shootings of unarmed individuals, I don't know what's to blame (perhaps, the glorification of the gangster culture in the US doesn't help), but the fact is there will come a day when every garda will have to have a gun and when that day comes, God help us all!

by Paul Tue Sep 25, 2007 21:08

I can understand people's hatred of the Gardai. They harrass working class commujities and play a disgusting and disgraceful role against protest movemnts such as in Rossport, Bin Tax, Collen construction.

But lets be clear about this. The is cops was not shot bu a workers milita or injured while trying to smash a picket line. He was shot by a criminal gang that cause misery and death to hundreds of thousands of people. these people are also scum and can't be supported. Lets just be sober about this and look at the nature of the people who shot this garda

by DISGUSTED - CIVILISED SOCIETY Tue Sep 25, 2007 19:17

It never ceases to amaze and disgust me how in our country there are so many low lifes ready to use an an event like this morning's shooting as a tendentious opportunity to push their personal agendas ...

There is a time and place for everything but some ignoramuses and small minded people just would not understand that they are so fixed in their predertmined views. Facist is a word that comes to mind but that is probably too polite.

If the Garda had been killed would they be of a different view ? I doubt it. Do you wish him well for a speedy recovery ?

by Observer Tue Sep 25, 2007 19:01

Shooting armed thugs is not "Garda oppression" and the people killed in Lusk were not working class heroe. They were parastitic scum who made the lives of their communities hell. Grow up Jimmy.

by Joe Tue Sep 25, 2007 18:31

It is hardly surprising armed gangs are taking it out on Guards after the use of excessive force, resulting in the death of two young men from that area, by Gardai in Lusk. This is the future. The Garda in Lusk who chose to go all FBI on armed raiders shot more than two raiders.

by Jimmy C Tue Sep 25, 2007 15:25

Inquiries still ongoing into death by garda gunfire in Lusk, an assisination?? Is there a growing hate for Garda repression and use of violence in inner city Dublin communities? What are the consequences of this situation..anger exploding as happened in the "Dublin riot" a year and a half ago?

Amnesty calls for inquiry into Lusk deaths
http://www.rte.ie/news/2005/0526/dublin.html

Justice? Two years have passed and the Wheelock family still have no answers.
http://www.indymedia.ie/article/82934

Justice for Terence Wheelock
http://www.wsm.ie/story/934

Garda response to Terence Wheelock situation
http://www.garda.ie/angarda/press/2005/p22jun2005.html

garda ombudsman
http://www.gardaombudsman.ie/

Dublin Riots: What Happened and Why (Analysis) + 13min Video Footage
http://www.indymedia.ie/article/74528

by Jack Tue Sep 25, 2007 15:05

Bagman,
you should get down to Rossport instead of pontificating on something you obviously know nothing about.
My sympathies are with the garda and his family. He was doing a good job.

The same cannot be said for some of the unprofessional louts charged with policing Rossport.
They have broken the law they are sworn to uphold.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DrMoBpbJiA

If the Gardai lose public support it is because of their behaviour in Rossport. Certainly I have had to re-examine my support for the GS when I witness how they are mis-used to back multinationals over Irish citizens.
As is evident from the leader of this thread these things do not happen in isolation.