Reading the names of Gaza's dead Children

by George Row Fri Feb 06, 2009 16:19 gh_row at yahoo dot co dot uk

AAArgh ... yes typing mistakes ... a great way to slow down a heated argument.

Obviously I meant ".int" and not ".net" so the website is http://www.reliefweb.int

and the URL for the document search seems to have been too long for the Indymedia comment system and got smashed up. So this time I have used TinyURL to make a shorter link, which is:
http://tinyurl.com/ReliefWebDocs

or you can get a preview on TinyURL with:
http://preview.tinyurl.com/ReliefWebDoc

by Mr Man Fri Feb 06, 2009 13:26

http://www.reliefweb.net/ is not the link you wanted I think.

The second link you provided isn't working correctly either I think.

by George Row Thu Feb 05, 2009 23:08

Joy,

In your earlier comment you basically sought to say "Did 400 children really die?" it is a familiar construction that those of us used to confronting Holocaust Deniers are used to seeing with different numbers and different targets.

I was just the photographer at the event depicted in the original article here. After it was published I received what you would no doubt describe as "hate mail" doubting the numbers. So I asked the organisers of the event where the names came from.

The list used in the event was compiled by collating the deaths of children reported in daily reports that appeared on the website http://www.reliefWeb.net.

A search such as this one:

http://www.reliefweb.int/rw/srch.nsf/doc304SearchResult...d=not('1')&offset=0&hits=25&sortby=rwpubdate-rwpubdatedisplay&sortdirection=descending&mode=simpleall

will get you the specific documents.

The facts remain that the state of Israel killed over 1300 people in its attack on Gaza - the vast majority of them civilians. Are you content that they did that in your name?

by Joy Wolfe Thu Feb 05, 2009 21:31

Venom: You've got (hate) mail
by LIAT COLLINS, Jerusalem Post
Like many journalists in the most recent war, I discovered a battle going on in my e-mail in-box, where comments on Operation Cast Lead replaced spam offers as the unkosher flavor of the month.
Some of the e-mails were so obviously sent to insult rather than inform that I hit the delete button without opening them. E-mails from addresses like "Deathtozionistdogs" did not seem to take the role of the Israeli press as the watchdog of democracy seriously.
There were, of course, also expressions of support—from Jews and gentiles around the world; people who realize that Hamas and its backers crying about human rights abuses by Israelis in Gaza while lobbing missiles at civilian populations across the border were continuing war by other means, as military strategist Carl von Clausewitz might have put it.
I have received long, detailed e-mails describing Israel's "crimes" (my quote marks, in case you wondered); plus short, pithy messages of the "why hadn't I thought of that first" kind. My thanks, for example, to the US physician who found another apt Shakespeare quote after I mentioned Shylock's speech in a recent oped.
Full text at: http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1233304665330&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FPrinter

by Joy Wolfe Thu Feb 05, 2009 20:41

It is Tom who is talking rubbish not me
I did not refer to dead Israeli children I referred to a generation of 8 year olds who have never known a day of their life without the fear of a rocket falling near them.
As for shelters, you really have dug yourself into a hole there Tom
Israel cares about its citizens so it invests considerable sums of money in seeing everyone observes the law that dwellings HAVE TO HAVE a shelter to go to and there are public shelters within short distances to enable people to reach them in the ridiculously short 15 second warning time.
Hamas and the Palestinians on the contrary use international aid to build tunnels to smuggle arms and have never built a single shelter. Instead they put their women and children in deliberate danger by using schools, hospitals and mosques as well as residential areas as launching pads for missiles and have the civilians there as human shields.
Israel protects and Hamas endangers. Afterwards, as proved by the false story of a UN school being bombed which has now been denied by the UN spokesman who has admitted that the school was not hit and there was not a single casualty in the compound, they then lie to cover themselves.
If Israel behaved liike Syria did in Hama when 20,000 were murdered in a day, then the casualty total in Gaza would be 10 times what it is. Of course every single death is a tragedy, but like the EU, the UN the Palestinian Authority and even many Gazans place the blame where it really lies - on Hamas who have brought this tragedy on its own people.
As it is the number of Hamas and Fatah personnel killing each other is rising by the day, and no doubt these figures are used to inflate the casualty figures, which Arab spokespeople have already claimed are being highly exaggerated.
As for Islamaphobia being a worse threat than antisemitism I don't see people taking to the streets saying Death to the Muslims or see anti Muslim daubings on mosques and Muslim shops. Nor do I see Muslims being beaten up on the streets or Muslim children having to run the gauntlet of name calling and harrassment on their way to school as Jewish children do
If antisemitism is not a problem why Tom, why do you think a group of influential Muslim clerics and leaders, to their great credit, issued a statement urging that the Gaza situation should not be allowed to be used as an excuse for the indisputable rise in antisemitism in the UK and elsewhere
Mosques do not have to have security guards and Muslim schools are not on red alert for fear of being targetted
So frankly Tom your few lines simply proves you don't have the slightest concept of the realities of today
And I doubt you have received racist hatemail like I have

by Mr Man Thu Feb 05, 2009 17:18

"It certainly is not anti-Semitism"

Actually, there is a global rise in anti semitism. In Turkey it has risen massively. And unfortunately, anti semites ARE using the conflict in gaza as a springbox, denigrating the genuine humanitarian platform. Islamophobia is also worryingly on the rise. Joy didn't say that support for gaza is anti-semitism, rather that there is anti semitism under the guise of support for gaza.

by Tom Thu Feb 05, 2009 16:16

Joy,

It certainly is not anti-Semitism. The rise of Islamophobia is the worrying trend of our times.

While it is never desirable to play a numbers game, all deaths in this terrible occupation are abhorrent; it would take you far longer to read out the numbers of dead Palestinian children than Israeli children.

How would you feel if you didn't even have a air raid shelter to run to while missles targeted your house and the houses around you?

by Joy Wolfe Thu Feb 05, 2009 14:57

Wouldn't it be great if the concern expressed Mothers Across the World for the children of Gaza included the children of Sderot and other parts of southern Israel who have been traumatised for the past 8 years by the sound of the sirens warning them of pending rocket attacks from Gaza and the 15 second warning they have to get to a shelter.
Have you ever tried seeing what you can and can't do in 15 seconds?
Also even the most exaggerated in inaccurate claims of casualties in Gaza have not claimed 400 children dead, and there are Arab cources that verify that casualty claims have been distorted and inflated
I and most people who are sympathetic to Israel care about the Palestinian peple as well and regret ALL casualties and suffering
It would be encouraging if there was ever any evidence that those who demonstrate on behalf of the Palestinians and allow slogans such as "Kill the Jews" and Hamas Hamas Jews to the Gas, as well as Jihad is our Duty ever spared a thought for Israelis who are suffering as well
The increase of antisemitism we are now experiencing under the guise of support for the Gazans is a truly frightening phenomenum

by George Row Thu Feb 05, 2009 13:35 gh_row at yahoo dot co dot uk

The event reported in the article contributed to the creation of a global initiative called "Mothers Across the World for Gaza"

the Group has a page on Facebook
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=21133799949

It has organised a global Gaza solidarity event taking place in ten places simultaneously this weekend - 8th Feb..

There are links to event pages down the right including one in

Ballybofey:
http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=49483022708
and one in Derry:
http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=48176191723

by redjade Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:58

Thanks for the uploads and other contributions to indy :-)

Here's an amazing Guardian video of a Gazan doctor explaining the new weapons systems 'deployed' against civilians in this latest 'incursion.'

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2009/jan/16/gaza-...horus