Swiss anti-Minaret Vote passes

by David Sat Apr 02, 2022 00:45

You have to understand that the swiss people are very attached to their religion and way if life. They fear to loose their culture and identity in the long time because Switzerland is a small country. That's why they have specific law to protect their way of life. Switzerland is direct democracy system, this vote has gathered most of the swiss votes and we have to respect it. To learn more about swiss law you can visit https://www.questiondedroit.ch/

by iosaf Fri Feb 05, 2010 19:37

I have to explain this ping and illustration briefly :-

In the comments to this article above I supplied illustration of one of the four current Swiss minarets which it appears went too far for those alpime people, "to put things in perspective". I also invited readers to wikpedia or google the vast range and diverse gamut of minarets to understand that what constitutes a dreary steeple or a gaudy minaret is oft as difficult to define as what delineates a religiously motivated veil or dare we suggest rebellious glint in the eye .-

anyway..,

I clarified the 2009 Swiss minaret debacle in its proper liberal democratic and constitutional context by highlighting that the Swiss Helvetian gnomic folks were invited to vote on three matters on the 29th of November, perhaps the least in importance of which was the question of banning an architectural form without previously defining it. The Swiss voted on :-

* a ban on the construction of new minarets;
* a ban on exporting weapons and war materiel;
* a prescription that money raised from taxes on aviation fuel should be used for aviation matters.

c/f http://www.indymedia.ie/article/94956

Well now it has come to my attention that a little German hamlet with pretensions of "palitinate pfalz" has decided to start strutting its fascist stuff against the planning permission application (complete with colourful photoshop simulation) of a minaret in its midst

read more :- http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,6761....html

forgive me for thinking this is the same fascist protest against pretty much the same islamist architecture.

by Tomas Wed Dec 02, 2009 15:14

The Swiss referendum to ban mosque minarets received support from left groups and voting sympathisers as well as active support from right conservatives and chauvinists. The French ban on schoolgirls wearing headscarves in state schools (and Jews wearing yarmulkas and Christians wearing ostentatious crucifix necklaces etc) was imposed by a minister in a centre-right government and has the sympathy of mainstream conservative and leftist voters among the 'indigenous' population. Such recent exercises in banning something religious are examples of democratic politicians anxiously trying to keep 'onside' with their electoral bases, whether on the left the right or the centre. It's a kind of supermarket politics that panders to choice shopping by consumers deemed to be potentially fickle in their consumer preferences.

I think we have seen this kind of public posturing on sexual issues by the PDs, socialist parties, FG and even FF belatedly since the 70s onwards. Sexuality, ethnicity, laicity and other cultural issues that crop up in public discourse from time to time can all be grouped together in the term Identity Issues. Since the fading away of the anti Vietnam War movement among young people in the 1960s and the 'evenements' among students and striking factory workers in France in 1968-69 there was a steady withdrawal by mainstream parties of left orientation away from public emphasis on class economic issues and a drift into the centre. The left and conservative parties filled the vacuum in their policies and programmes with packages of Identity policies and promises.

New Labour leadership in Britain withdrew from its manual working class roots and uprooted Clause Four from its constitution - the clause about government controlling the commanding heights of the economy. The Labour government allowed the banking system carte blanche to operate with minimal supervision from Whitehall - and we know what the banking system in Britain, Ireland, the USA and elsewhere has got millions of salaried taxpayers into as a result of reckless unsupervised and unregulated financial policies and practices.

The moral of what I say is that it would be unrealistic to regard the Swiss referendum on banning mosque minarets as either a good or a bad thing. To regard it as an exercise in downplaying income inequalities and discrimination against immigrants and religious minorities would IMHO be a more objective attitude.

by bitburger Wed Dec 02, 2009 13:10

Absolutely wonderful news from Switzerland. A big thank you must go to the ordinary Swiss people who defied their easily embarassed, politically correct leadership and voted to roll back the advance of Islam. (maybe they'll ask them to vote again, well it worked in Ireland, didn't it???)

Surprising that this has attracted so little comment from the Irish mainstream or alternative media. In the very week when the horrors of fundamentalist catholicism was laid bare for all to see, I would have thought that efforts to remove another particularly aggressive form of religion from public life would be welcomed with open arms.

Think I'll wash down a Toblerone with a bottle of Kronenbourg 1664 to celebrate.

[BTW none of the above is to excuse Switzerland's shameful collusion with Nazi Germany and its (still ongoing) theft from murdered Jews, correctly highlighted by a previous poster. Interesting too that significant elements of political Islam of the day (in Palestine and Bosnia) also aligned with the Nazis. ]

by iosaf Tue Dec 01, 2009 20:46

(Nicely said Fred in the last comment).

Above you can see an image of one of the four minarets in Switzerland which I appended to this article. I have chosen it as an illustration not only because it has figured in various forms in western media but also because it is unique. The other three minarets in Switzerland are one could argue "ornamental", in that they are within the grounds of a mosque rather like a Roman Catholic grotto or muscular Jesus on a cross rather than curiously plonked on top the roof a otherwise un-noteworthy building. As I commented earlier today on my thread which hopes to deal with the referendum of last weekend as a whole (& not only one question) - western media in general chose to use a slightly misleading illustration.http://www.indymedia.ie/article/94956&comment_limit=0&c...62879 The one I put up on this thread shows the fourth minaret of Switzerland with some indications of scale. Unless the muslims who meet to pray under the roof of that single storey building are giants and goliaths of mythical standing - we can presume the minaret is actually quite a modest rooftop addition to a simple architectural structure used by those exercising their human rights to freedom of worship, assembly & speech.

I now present the image which was mostly used by the western media. It shows the same minaret without useful scale indications in contrast with a steeple. Without boring the readership - I have verified that the steeple in the background of the minaret is many times taller. It is indeed an example of Roman Catholic symbolic supremacy. The steeple in Wangel bei Olten not only reminds the local Swiss Roman Catholics that they aren't Calvinist, Jewish or Humanist - it proves a useful landmark for Swiss Roman catholics to find somewhere wherein they might enjoy iconography; iconoclasm, transubstantiation, the Marian cult not to mention the Roman Catholic sacrament of confession without anyone uttering an UlsterScots word of disdain for their superstition or idoltry . The steeple in Wangel bei Olten marks thus a resistance to the colonisation of christendom by reformist protestantism & can only be understood properly through proper study, for many years or a conveniently paid-for-internet course & diploma, of the imposition of Protestantism. In Ireland let it be noted that not only did Protestants build their own places of worship since the reformation - they also held on to many of the prime real estate cathedrals. Protestant apologists (such as myself) might argue that the lack of incense in the Anglican tradition as evinced locally by the CofI together with the Anglican tradition love and respect of music and organs might have meant such formerly Popish cathedrals as Finbar's Cork, Patrick's Dublin & Christchurch, Dublin have been better looked after and better used to our cutural enrichment. Architectural pedants (such as myself) might point out that the Roman Catholic church has not yet built a cathedral complete with angelus tower; shrine to the Marian cult, stage for folk mass musicians, golden trocaire box or round tower in Dublin & indeed handed over the site for its cathedral on Merrion Square to the Office of Public works.

Thus obviously until the Scientologists wish to erect a gazebo / pagoda to the memory of L. Ron Hubbard -
Ireland has little to worry about the polemical issue of architecture, constitution & buildings dedicated to public worship

we're not learning from or taking after the Swiss this week or ever indeed.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________

The Swiss Council of Religions, which is composed of leaders from the country’s Christian, Jewish and Islamic organisations, issued a statement rejecting a proposed ban on minarets. A group of right-wing anti-immigrant politicians had gathered more than 100,000 signatures to support the so-called Minaret Initiative, saying the minarets threaten law and order.

The Swiss federal government warned that the referendum vote was organised legally but a ban would violate international human rights and the country’s constitution. “Such a ban would endanger peace between religions and would not help to prevent the spread of fundamentalist Islamic beliefs,” its Department of Justice and Police said in late August.

The Council statement, the first it made on a political issue since it was formed in 2006 to foster interfaith dialogue, denounces the bid as an affront to the tradition of diversity in the multilingual Alpine country. Here are some excerpts from that statement issued before the voting was done :

“The Swiss Council of Religions decisively rejects the Minaret Initiative. The Council, which consists of leaders from the Christian, Jewish, and Muslim communities, is dedicated to protecting religious peace in Switzerland and to strengthening trust among the churches and religious communities. The Minaret Initiative would bring about just the opposite. It instrumentalizes religion for political aims and engenders mistrust among the populace…

“steeple-minaret Switzerland has known cultural diversity for a long time. It is part of its history and characteristic of the Swiss identity. The people of this country have developed rules and systems of coexistence in the course of a long common history. The resulting rules are such an integral part of the cultural tradition of the country that its people are hardly aware of them in explicit terms; and at the center of this democratic self-image lies in the recognition of the freedom of each individual within the framework of a legal order that is equally binding for all…”

“The dialogue among the churches and religious communities of Switzerland shows that differences of religion, culture, tradition, and social-political views do not preclude a deep common belief that all people share the same inalienable dignity. The fundamental rights to the freedom of belief and conscience apply equally to all. The right to construct mosques and minarets can therefore not be made to depend on whether religious minorities enjoy the same religious freedoms in other countries. Answering injustice with further injustice would be a betrayal of Swiss values…

“The minaret initiative does not solve any problems. On the contrary, it only contributes to suspicion, mistrust, and aggression against people of Muslim faith…

“The signatures gathered for the referendum initiative lend expression to the people’s fears and concerns. What messages will be preached in the mosques? Is Islam more than just a religion? What significance do human rights, democracy and rule of law, and the equality of men and women have from a Muslim point of view? Does Islam seek the status of an exception in Switzerland due to its religious precepts? These questions and others like them will be asked and require discussion…”

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________

A bonus extra for readers who can negotiate the German language : an interesting interview (alas written in German of the proper type not the schw- schw- schw- scwhite they schwpeak in schweisse which enschures their German speakers are the laughing schtock of the German schpeaking world) with the chairman ( you hardly expect a chairwoman or chairperson, do you?) of the Swiss Council of Religions, Markus Sahli.
http://www.swissinfo.ch/ger/startseite/Rat_der_Religion...ty=st

& another example how local (German language media it must be stressed) in Switzerland is still hyping the government opposition line that voting against minarets might provoke the Islamic world more than voting for continued arms sales This editorial comment published in the Basle German speaking newspaper (Basler zeitung) in September back when the far right began their constitutional referendum campaign was illustrated with pictures of angry muslims breaking swiss windows. Now for the benefit of older wags we're not talking about angry young followers of Islam smashing up the xmas switzers santa display - nope - we're talking about one isolated incident which saw a company owned by joint Danish and Swiss businesses attacked during the "cartoon crisis" of a few years back.

http://bazonline.ch/schweiz/standard/Was-tun-wenn-sich-...47694

Photo: Steeple and minaret in Wangen bei Olten, 7 August 2009/Michael Buholzer

by Fred Johnston Tue Dec 01, 2009 15:47

Cuckoo clocks, hoarding money appropriated from murdered Holocaust Jews, and now constitutionally banning the building of minarets - the Swiss are really making their mark on the world. And what of this little gem from a publication called Jewish Political Studies:

"The effort to prevent Jewish immigration was central to the Swiss authorities long before the rise of Nazism in Germany and the resultant waves of refugees who reached the Swiss borders in the 1930s and 1940s. Special regulations were enacted to prevent "foreign infiltration," making it increasingly difficult for Jews to settle in Switzerland. Instead, the aim of Swiss policy was "transmigration" or onward migration; permanent asylum was to be denied.

The transmigration policy was suspended during the war. However, most of the Jews who managed to reach Switzerland were interned to prevent them from striking roots in the country. Transmigration was resumed in 1944, and subsequent improvements in Switzerland's treatment of the refugees were made in this context. By 1954, Switzerland had succeeded in compelling almost all the Jewish refugees to leave."

Don't you just love that word, 'compelling'? And they make good chocolates, too, and keep guns in their homes. 450,000 Muslims in Switzerland, and the Swiss ban minarets. Why not church towers? Meanwhile a Canadian Foreign Affairs website warns:

"Petty crime is on the rise and occurs in most public areas, particularly in Berne, Zurich and Geneva. Thieves often operate in tandem, with one distracting the traveller while another snatches any valuables. Pickpockets are active in public places, such as airports and railway stations. Never leave bags containing money, airline tickets, credit cards, or passports in the trunk of a parked car or anything on car seats. Travellers should exercise caution on trains, especially on overnight trips to neighbouring countries."

And watch the minarets. Particularly the minarets. Or is this minaret ban just another very Swiss way of 'compelling' the Muslims to leave? Blatant sectarianism, of course, and Switzerland should be hauled before the European Court.

by iosaf Mon Nov 30, 2009 00:42

There are four minarets in Switzerland & this is one of them. Outside you can see the city flag, the Turkish flag (for it is Turkish community mosque) which as we know has a crescent upon a red background & the Swiss flag (for it is a Swiss mosque for Swiss people who live in Switzerland and many have doubtless desirable Swiss children who hold hands and French kiss with other Swiss youngsters and more besides for hands and tongues know no frontiers) which is of course a White cross on a red background.

neither the Swiss nor the Turks are commies and their red flag is not to be understood in the same way the flag of Red China is a great and vast land wherein are to be found many minarets built to the Han Chinese style and architectural tradition.

the minaret of Wangen bei Olten in Switzerland a rarity and jewel of a now constitutionally banned architectural form

by Danarchism Sun Nov 29, 2009 21:36

The deciding factor seems to have been prominent feminists like Julia onken coming on board. It truly is an impressive thing, to see ordinary people bring a personal initiative on a community need to such a successful conclusion. Well done to the ordinary people of Switzerland.