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Sun: "Our Boys face more missions after Mali success"
Irish soldiers under British command in Africa: "It's been a pleasure!"
Sun newspaper, Wed May 22 2013:
There is still [a British] appetite to influence world affairs.
UK troops are supporting operations in Mali and Somalia and are on stand-by to aid the government in Libya.
During his two-day trip, Mr Hammond congratulated Brits at Koulikoro base, who are deployed with Irish troops for the first time since 1922. He said the Queen’s 2011 trip to Ireland brought a change in Anglo-Irish relations.
Sgt Gerry Setright, 49, of the Irish Defence Forces, said of working with the Brits: “It’s been a pleasure. We are closer than people think.”
Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/campaigns/our...aRMDs Sun article, by David Willets, Deputy Defence Editor:
BRITISH troops were put on red alert for more military strikes in Africa last night — in a bid to prevent another Afghan nightmare.
Defence Secretary Philip Hammond announced the move on a visit to Mali.
In a daring intervention there, French troops routed al-Qaeda terrorists threatening to overrun the West African nation.
They were aided by UK spy plane expertise and British soldiers training Mali troops.
The successful mission, which is now winding up, will be a blueprint for rapid strikes on militants in other shaky states.
By going in early with fewer men, Mr Hammond believes we won’t be dragged into another Afghan war lasting years.
He said: “We should be — and are — prepared to intervene upstream to stabilize countries at risk of failing.
“We can protect our national security that way, rather than waiting for them to fail and having to go in mob-handed.” Our troops may have to engage on MULTIPLE fronts to halt the spread of terror to Europe. Mr Hammond warned: “We might have to do these small-scale interventions in more than one location at once.
“Using small specialist interventions, normally working with allies, to support and shape governments in areas at risk of failure avoids having to make much bigger military interventions later.”
His admission is a sign that despite our Forces’ dwindling numbers there is still an appetite to influence world affairs.
UK troops are supporting operations in Mali and Somalia and are on stand-by to aid the government in Libya.
During his two-day trip, Mr Hammond congratulated Brits at Koulikoro base, who are deployed with Irish troops for the first time since 1922. He said the Queen’s 2011 trip to Ireland brought a change in Anglo-Irish relations.
Sgt Gerry Setright, 49, of the Irish Defence Forces, said of working with the Brits: “It’s been a pleasure.
“We are closer than people think.”
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international |
anti-war / imperialism |
news report
Wednesday May 22, 2013 11:19
by Stasia
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Jump To Comment: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28“It’s been a pleasure. We are closer than people think.”
He'd be surprised what people think!
economic conscripts from their former Irish colony fighting on the side of imperialists and killing brown people so the French and brits can secure access to the vital resources they covet in the race for Africa. So cynical!
For the information of all, there is no no conscription economic or otherwise into the Irish Defence forces in actual fact there has been an embargo on recruiting fifths last number of years. All Irish service personnel are volunteers.
As for killing brown people, you must have missed or ignored the stories regarding the atrocities in Mali before the deployment of these troops, and therefore the reason behind their deployment.
As usual Irish military personnel have upheld the high standards and traditions of the Defence Forces.
suck on this and retract your lies :
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/irish-recruits-joi....html
Economic conscription to UK army is alive and well in Austerity Ireland.
And The French / British aren't in central Africa for the good of their health Y'Know!
Perhaps if NATO hadn't gone into Libya, these religious nutjobs would not now be bristling with arms. Half this shit is fallout from that stupid decision. But then, chaos was the real intention. Because, as the saying goes, "when there's chaos, a man who knows what he wants, stands a good chance of getting it!"
Uranium, gold / oil / coltan whatever. All of which by a huge coincidence is rather plentiful in central Africa.
Niger which borders Mali has some of the worlds largest uranium deposits + gold, oil and other minerals:
Check out the "economy" bit here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niger
No coincidence that the French, whose electricity is 80%+ from nuclear energy is in that area all the time.
Suck on what & retract what lies.
There is no conscription in either the Irish Army or indeed the British Army, there has always been a flow of Irish volunteers into both organisations. (Although yes there was conscription in the British Army during WWII and WWI).
Read the article, and yes it does state that Irishmen are joining the British Army because of the recession, but "Economic Conscripts" seriously. These young men want to serve in the military the only reason they join the B.A. is because our recruiting is virtually nil. So now that they cant enlist in the Irish Defence Forces they join the B.A.
The comment in the news item you refer to which states "The numbers joining the British armed forces from the Republic have increased to over 150 a year, the highest recruitment rate since World War II" doesnt really speak of an economic conscription crisis, "150" enlistments in one year, for crying out load there are three times that number (at least) emigrating from Ireland to countries all around the world every day.
As for the trouble in Mali and elswhere being attributed to the intervention of NATO/American/The British/The French etc seriously look what these fundamentalists where doing long before this. They have NO TIME or humanity whatsoever towards those who dont fall into line with their doctrine.
Your comment "Perhaps if NATO hadn't gone into Libya, these religious nutjobs would not now be bristling with arms." actually states the uncertainty of your position when you say "Perhaps if " and also " these religious nutjobs would not now be bristling with arms", these "religious nutjobs" (your words) already had their weapons. Look what happened in Kenya recently "Religious nutjobs" murdering all around them in a shopping centre.
The Irish Defence Forces have a fine record around the world on Peace Keeping missions and no-one can detract from that with the type of lead comments that were made in connection with the lead story.
So there isnt anything to suck on Fred but the lollipop of fact.
Clearly these folk joined up because of economic pressures.
That's the very definition of economic conscription.
I'm not interested in engaging further with a military apologist.
Go somewhere where they swallow the PR of scum like you
Fred ,
Your comments and remarks betray your true personality.
Your and your like cannot debate without recourse to verbal insults, and therefore are no better than those fundamentalists who conduct atrocities such as in that Kenyan Shopping Centre or in Mali.
150 recruits a year works out at one every two days and as this number is not that much greater than before the recession your "economic conscription" concept is as ridiculous as your insults.
The Defence Forces and the men and women in them will continue to serve this country with pride at home and abroad, what will you do for your country.
Disagreeing with sending young men to their deaths in order to preserve the wealth of imperialists and their rich chums against the interests of poor brown people makes me as bad as a mali bomber?? Laughable nonsense!
I rest my case
Fred,
Your attitude is laughable.
Firstly I am no apologist for the Irish Defence forces or their missions, they don't need apologies, their record speaks for itself.
Secondly your recourse to abusive terms in your earlier posts does neither you nor your points any favours. It was on your use of abusive terms in making your points that caused me to compare your behaviour to the fundamentalist.
When men and women volunteer to join the Defence Forces they are fully aware of the requirement to serve overseas and agree to do so, that us their choice of career.
As for comments re imperialism etc, do you believe that socialism, communism or fundamentalism does not lay claim to these resources that you state is the reasons behind these operations.
The government of these countries as for external assistance. Our Defence Force personnel can also only be deployed on a triple lock system.
I am still proud to have served both at home and abroad and still proud of our troops.
The service record of Irish troops in UN peacekeeping operations is good. A small country has made its contribution to UN ideals. More than a hundred Irish soldiers have died while serving the UN since the first Irish troops were sent to the Congo in 1961. As long as the triple-lock system is functioning and our troops don't get involved in dubious operations that play into the hands of the foreign policy of big powers the Irish military can continue to play an honourable role in world troublespots.
The use of Shannon Airport by USA military planes continues to be a stain on Irish neutrality, but it does not involve the Irish military in its capacity as a supporter of UN peacekeeping.
Soldiers are just hired killers. You are an ex hired killer. There is no honour in being a hired killer no matter how scum like you try to dress it up. You probably wear the red poppy too!
Once again as is usual with certain elements can only resort to insults by using words such as scum and not debate the topic.
"Hired killers", seriously is that the sole input you have. The Defence Forces of this country exist to protect this country from internal and external threats. They do their duty everyday to ensure this security. And they have done this for years when terrorist gangsters have being trying to subvert this country.
I would ask what do you do for your country apart from ridicule and insult men and women who actually serve their country and indeed the world while on UN missions. Having served overseas in areas of conflict I have seen first hand the effects our deployments have had on people in those areas. Our Defence Forces have and continue to receive the gratitude of those people and their governments.
Before you use the "Hired killer" appellation I suggest you read about our service and how we operated.
As for your use of the word scum, it says a lot about you as a person when you resort to attempting to insult people with words like that. But then again it takes all kinds to make up a society and bigots are also included in that make up, but don't worry the personnel of the Defence Forces have always and will always defend your rights to be a bigot.
You and the gardai exist to protect the kleptocratic state against real change, to protect the bank's money against the citizens, to preserve private property and a status quo that serves the wealthy and powerful against change. Don't think for one minute you exist to serve the majority of people. If anybody wanted to invade this country, we don't actually have an army that could meaningfully resist that in any real way. So why are you lot still here then costing the state money?? Answer: you guys exist to control the people if it proves necessary.
If the austerity racked coping classes rioted in the morning in sufficient numbers to cause real worry to power, who do you think would be shooting the tear gas or firing warning shots? The army of course. Because THAT'S actually your true purpose.
Don't try to bullshit me or anyone else on this site that this is not how things really are. How dumb do you think we are? All your talk of serving your country is bullshit. That's code for serving the interests of the powerful against the interests of the great unwashed.
Just two quotes from the last post:- "If the austerity racked coping classes rioted..." "...you guys exist to control the people if it proves necessary."
These are two very big Ifs. The Irish are not going to riot in the way that people rioted in Greece. They've made their electoral choices over the years and can lump the policies of the governments that came into power. The austerity-racked people can struggle by various means; they can protest. It seems debilitating for them to moan passively in the many places where they are austerity racked - but aren't austerity racked people in Britain, France, Spain or Italy for the most part taking these bitter times too quietly as well? I don't think the passive Irish are exceptions. I don't think the leadership of the big trade unions are exceptional in their acquiesence with "the way the economy is". I don't think the symbolical street protest parades organised once-yearly by the big trade unions in Britain or Ireland go any way to satisfy the day-to-day economic needs of the austerity racked - but again, the Irish situation is not exceptional. And Irish soldiers are not to blame for the economic situation. And regardless of the economic suffering of thousands of Irish families, there are troublespots in Africa and elsewhere where peacekeepers are needed.
Many are out on the streets. But don't expect to hear too much about it on RTE news. Just more celebrity guff and football. Can't go scaring the livestock or giving them ideas can we?
Millions came out on to the streets to protest going into Iraq, Even in the US. but the media blanked it and so it was like it never happened.
The media also serve the interests of the powerful, just like the army do. All work together in concert to keep us in our place.
We are like mushrooms. They feed us a diet of shit and keep us in the dark.
The attack dogs in uniform are a last resort in case we ever wake up. But don't ever doubt their true purpose.
It would appear "Truth" that you mist definitely have been over fed on a diet of bullshit (your word)as it appears to be seeping through your fingers and onto the keyboards.
As the previous contributor stated a lot if's in your post.
You now appear to be anti-everyone, so if some one breaks into your house you probably wouldn't call the Gardai when you discover it, as you will probably put the crime down to some poor misguided citizen who need needed your property more than you did. A big heart as well as a mouth.
As for defence of the country, I can guess where you will be in a time of crisis, hunkered in your mushroom shed crying for assistance.
Keeping taking the fertilizer.
No I'll be out on the streets calling for justice with all the other right minded people, while the likes of you and your army buddies fire tear gas and baton charge us, or insinuate yourselves amongst us as agent provocateurs and start engaging in violence and destruction, and then afterwards, a captive media will portray us as violent thugs or "terrorists". I know how it works.
And all done to protect the interests of those in power in return for a mediocre wage and a pat on the back.
You seriously are disconnected from reality. With no real understanding of how a democracy works.
Thankfully the majority of the people of this country are well above the type of level you are at.
Maybe I should have said lay of the "mushrooms".
Enjoy your little world.
Truth be known you don't know the truth.
Sadly, it's you who still doesn't realise how "democracy" works (or rather doesn't work).
As long as there are economic conscripts stupid enough to join up and defend the powerful against their own brothers like this with automatic weapons and all the other oppressive tools of capitalism, then things will never change.
Only when members of the police and armed forces actually see the light and change sides, does anything really change. However while that might be something one might expect to happen in Venezuela or in a similarly politically aware population, it is unlikely to happen here.
Because in our little country, a huge one sided propaganda torrent flows straight through our TV's and into our brains from the US, and it is unrelenting. Because of this all pervasive blanket of lies, our people are still completely brainwashed and sleepwalking to their jobs then on to the shops like good little hybrid american / european consuming units. We have absorbed the lies of crony capitalism whole and that kind of enlightened thinking is not really possible here at present.
Maybe some day we'll wake up and start genuinely striving for a better world where we have more of a say in things and show more concern for the long term viability of our community and our planet instead of just short term greed and benefit for corporations and the 1%. Meanwhile, amongst other flavours, we have to listen to your stupid pro military propaganda and sadly many people will probably continue to swallow it whole.
So you want the police and the army to swap sides. Which means you want a police force and army on your side which means you support the military concept very strange indeed.
Ever shot anyone mr hired killer. ?
I suggest you head back under the rock you crawled out from under.
No I never had to shoot anyone, and so many soldiers in many armies never have to.
My last post obviously hit a nerve with you when you come up with this type of puerile question.
You are in favour of the police and military bringing their services and weapons on to your side, which means you are in favour of what you protest against.
Long before the recession young men and women were enlisting in the Irish Defence forces they were not "economic conscripts" then nor will they ever be.
again 150 recruits per year does not make any kind of case for your point.
It is also strange that an article from the newspaper which from your posts you believe is part of the media propaganda system is used to highlight this so called "economic conscription".
As for your rock analogy perhaps you should actually consider crawling out from under yours a bit more often or even once.
Truth "YOU can't handle the truth" ( see what I did there) and yes I know it was a military based movie and I realise you with come back with a load of verbal diarrhea.
Lucky you. Many soldiers in many armies DO have to shoot at / kill people. There are a lot of people dying. They don't all shoot themselves you know!
And exactly why is this a puerile question? Your whole raison d'etre as a soldier is to shoot / threaten to shoot people if they don't do what your masters want them to. So it's a totally relevant question to ask if you have ever killed in the "call of duty"
No. I am in favour of police / military in countries where there are completely faux democracies downing weapons when faced with democratic protesters instead of tear gassing and roughing them up or shooting at them, as in the likes of Bahrain, or if it comes to it and we ever wake up, then here. Because this IS a faux democracy. The stupid straw man statement about "supporting what I am against " just came from you playing with yourself in your own head.
I'm personally know people who joined up in Ireland to get a college education they could otherwise not afford, as an army cadet. If I personally know some then no doubt there are many others. I'm sure some joined up as it was the only way to get work in the 80's. Now we are in another recession. The EU is pushing a military agenda and each country will be expected to supply troops when required. There will no doubt be more recruitment in the future to cover this. And no doubt people will be joining then out of economic necessity.
The article data shows that along with the recession these last 2 years, there has been a 18% increase in recruits to the UK army since 2011
That's 27 people more in the UK army likely as a result of economic pressures.
Most have joined the RIR, which has "served in Bosnia, Kosovo, Sierra Leone, the Gulf and Iraq."
That's 27 people that may end up in the likes of Iraq or Afghanistan or some other hellhole created by imperialism. And good luck not having to shoot at anybody there!
Yes, numbers are still small but statistically it's still a significant 18% increase. Even one person extra going to a death trap like Afghanistan due to money problems is one too many. Not to mention the poor brown people they might have to shoot at when ordered to, or the cynical agenda that puts them there.
The article is highlighting the trend but it is also clearly presenting this trend in an overall positive light.
it says things like:"The conflicts in Afghanistan and Iraq have acted as a stimulus for young men eager to see action in uniform." and "One source said that recruits from the Republic are especially prized because most have a decent education and all want to make the military their career."
Doesn't exactly sound anti war to me. It's really just an advert putting the possibility of joining up in the minds of people at a time of financial difficulty in the hope of drawing further recruits. So it IS pro military propaganda. Certainly doesn't contradict what I am saying, in fact it supports it. I am merely turning this propaganda against itself.
For someone who thinks it's so terrible to resort to insults, funny, it hasn't stopped you from using them in your own posts.
more insults from the guy who complains about insults. And I see you bring up that well known and often quoted out of context as propaganda Jack Nicholson line from "A few good men". Appropriate from a recruiting vulture like you. Did you know that there is a strong relationship between hollywood / video game companies and the military? Of course you did. in fact they have a whole department dedicated to "getting their message out" through the media of film and video games to suggestible young boys. But you knew that too. It's just that that's a side of things you are not interested in informing people about.
check out the documentary:
http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/hollywood-and-the-pentagon/
here's a view of how economic conscription works in the US:
Caption: Video Id: jJXpbtLG9mk Type: Youtube Video
recruiters hunting for economic conscripts.
You now get in to me for "insulting you" when it it is quite obvious from your first input on this thread that you were the first one to cast the insults, such as "scum" and others such as "crawl back under your rock" in other posts. So perhaps if as it now seems you actually cannot take returned insults you should refrain from initiating the insults. I debate/discuss in the manner in which others debate with me, as I say you were the second person to address me as scum, yet you don't know me, great way to debate.
You are the one that spoke about the Venezuelan military and appear to praise them for their stance, so it's still an armed force acting for the Government waiting as you would say to use their weapons .
As for all your statistics you can play with the whatever way you like to get an answer.
I have served with many many soldiers not just a few, so I speak from personal experience when I say why the majority enlisted. I will say honestly that a very small minority joined for a job, but soon packed it in when they realised that it required committement that not up to on many levels as they thought it was easy money.
All soldiers and Gardai in this country take an oath to serve this country it's people and it's constitution and have done this since the foundation of the state and some have paid with their lives in this service in their own country by home grown weakly supported terrorist groups.This was what they were paid to do but all the same they did it.As people in this country vote on the constitution from time to time therefore the Defence Forces represent them.
The real "truth" is the Defence Forces" of this country are well respected both at home by its own people and abroad.
Having made my points regarding both the main topic and your ill informed conspiracy theories, I shall leave you to your musings in the sure knowledge that at least your responses to my posts will show the type of person you are and the attitudes you actually hold towards this country and the men and women who serve it and its people.
What will you do for your country? You most likely don't even vote, if I a mistaken and you do vote then the Defence Forces and the Gardai are their for you either way
Most of the Irish Military casualties have been incurred while acting as Peace Keeping troops under UN auspices while serving in Lebanon
A total of 47 Irish Military Personnel have been killed while serving with the UN in Lebanon.
The majority of those were killed by the Israeli Military or by their Proxy forces such as the SLA.
Your knowledge of world events is rather poor it seems!
I praise the Venezuelan army not for being an armed force acting for the government, but for knowing right from wrong and putting that first, for being politically in tune with the wishes of the people and for peacefully downing weapons, escorting the oligarchy out and allowing Chavez to return after a cynical US sponsored coup attempt, instead of violently protecting the oligarchy against the people.
Just the "lollipop of fact". Don't like the taste do you? ;-)
Laughable! You discount my correct statistics, then proceed to extrapolate from some personal experience to make a general point. The fact is as the recession progresses, recruitment to the UK army increases. You can't deny this. And no doubt it's the same across all cash strapped nations. Economic conscription is alive and well.
They take may take that oath, but then they proceed to act against the people in the service of the rich and powerful. Often as the muscle in various extortion rackets, in the case of car tax and insurance, tv licenses etc. Also, the harassment dealt out to peaceful democratic protesters in this country by gardai is way out of line.
As opposed to "freedom fighters". So I'm curious. If they were the "terrorists", how would you refer to the unmarked british army soldiers in unmarked cars driving around the north shooting civilians, a practice revealed recently in a BBC documentary?? You know, that same british army we buy the poppy to support and that people are now joining in increasing numbers due to financial pressure. ?
They don't represent us. They corral us and remain as a last resort for the powerful in case we the great unwashed actually see our true class enemies for what they really are. Unlikely of course in our case as television and other media lies have successfully hypnotised us.
Our defence forces are just more fodder for imperialism. They go in to protect the "peace" after the damage is done by imperialism.
The reality though is that our government do support wars of aggression in our name, despite majority opposition to these, and we even waive the standard commercial air fees on US military planes heading to the gulf, Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya etc etc. through Shannon. These gardai and soldiers break their constitutional promise to uphold the law in refusing to search these planes despite being repeatedly requested to do so by citizens.
And our "boys" have been sent to the likes of chad, lebanon, Afghanistan etc, to help calm the waters after imperialists have stirred up trouble in order to serve their own geopolitical interests. in other words to help do the work of imperialism.
It's debatable who is ill informed here. you brainwashed propaganda spewing automaton. I see you use the standard "conspiracy theory" defence when faced with a point of view outside the mainstream. Pathetic!
Your arrogant supercilious responses here certainly show what kind of person you are. Apparently I am a low life conspiracy theorist for daring to question the true role of the military and the gardai in this state. But the hired killers are the good guys. Nice system of ethics you got there!
Hired killers / attack dogs protecting the interests of the rich and powerful against the citizens -ok
asking questions - evil gotcha.
Like I said, in their current incarnations, they are not there for me or for most of the other great unwashed. They are there to protect the interests of the rich and powerful from the likes of me.
The vote is there merely as a cynical pretence that we actually have a say in things. That we actually live in a democracy. It is clearly a farce. There is no actual political choice here. Whichever party gets in serves the interests of same few people.
But forgive me for daring to think that putting an x in a box on the basis of some lies told to me in a soundbite on TV then having no say in anything for 5 years while the people I voted in do the opposite to what they said, is not democracy. And that If I try to do anything effective to change things, you and your ilk will be out there cracking skulls and making sure I don't succeed.
I guess thinking that just makes me a conspiracy theorist.
I will strive in whatever way I can help change the current corrupt system into something that serves all the people and not just a rich and powerful few, and I will speak truth to power at every opportunity. I will strive to cut through the lies constantly spewed through the media and help in whatever way I can to inform the people as to what is really going on in this faux democracy.
Truth / Fred whatever you call yourself these days.
Its a good job people like you don't have the majority of a say in our country.
It would be full of rapists, murderers and crime syndicates with no one to do anything about it.
Try protesting against them and see how long you have your kneecaps.
As for other countries - yeah stay out of their conflicts and just let the brown / yellow / (insert applicable colour here) people kill each other.
Mean while we can all go down the pub nice and safe and sound on Saturday night and talk about how sad it is when children get their arms hacked off, families get wiped out, whole towns are rounded off and shipped off to concentration camps for extermination, etc and blame it on the Brits, Imperialism, Americanism, (insert your pet hate cause here).
Former soldier – your patience is admirable. I’d have told this fundamentalist, up-his-own arse fuckwit to sod off ages ago let alone waste any of my time countering his ramblings. At least you can put across your point without getting personal. More than that other gob shite can (and yes, I’m well aware how insulting him negates my own comment – but then again I really don’t give a fuck cos I’m sick of listening to him anyway).
Amazing how this site attracts fuckwits like shite attracts flies.....
Would that be the loyalists or the IRA, or the drug kingpins ( that strangely never seem to go to prison while the insignificant dealers do) you are referring to here?
Yes I feel really safe thanks to the gardai while down in belmullet or in moy ross currently.
Actually yes. Without our political meddling, our weapons, all driven out of our greed for their resources and not for our love of human rights, things would not be half as bad in many of these countries.
They generally kill each other with the weapons WE supply, due to political / tribal differences WE stoke in order to control their resources.
Are you talking about US sponsored Syrian rebels here??
Oh, I guess you are talking about US sponsored toppling of the Libyan government!
I love how you expound on your intricate geopolitical analisis with such piercing wit imagination and verbosity
Yes, and interesting how it seems to have attracted you.