The General Election 2016

by Sean Throne - Facts For Working People Sun Feb 28, 2016 16:18 loughfinn at aol dot com

Irish elections and the self styled revolutionary left.

It is likely that the self styled revolutionary left in Ireland such as the SP, SWP etc will try and portray the election results as some sort of victory. If this is so this will be a staggering mistake. After the offensive of capitalism against the working class over the past years, the so called austerity, to come out of this election with such little gains is a serious set back. This much be faced up to. What is the cause of this? The main culprits are the leaders of the workers organizations, the trade unions and the Labor Party. These leaderships support capitalism, can see no alternative to capitalism, cannot see that the working class could build a new society therefore they join with the capitalist class in holding the working class down. After the leadership of the workers organization comes the self styled revolutionary groups. At the height of the crisis when the economy was on the edge of a cliff they came up with only the most basic of transitional demands. I agreed with these, do not pay this, do not pay that. i agreed with this. But in and off themselves they were not enough. The majority of the working class were ahead of the self styled revolutionary groups. in this sense. They could see that to take these steps to deal with the economic crisis were serious business. The steps that were suggested would end up with the economy and country having to break with the EU, the Euro Zone, with global capitalism. The left were not able to convince the working class that they could deal with this. What was necessary and what I wrote at that time was that a program and strategy should be drawn up. This to be based on taking over the oil and gas wealth, the financial institutions, the major industries, the dominant sectors of the economy. on this basis draw up a budget , with precise financial data, which would solve the economy problems. On this basis explaining the need to build a democratic socialist plan. On this basis the working class taking power into its own hands. And state clearly that yes this would mean breaking with the international capitalist institutions. That it would also mean the physical and political taking over of the Irish economy and state and the establishing of a democratic socialist society and a democratic workers state and the spreading of this revolution internationally. The workers are not stupid. They know when serious business is at hand. And they know when serious alternatives are the only solution. The left did not give these. Propaganda ponderous speeches from joe Higgins in the Dail do not cut it. So the working class in the main went back to the old alternatives. Sure a few went to the left groups. But a tiny minority. The right wing LP, the party of austerity, got a higher percentage of the vote than the AAA PBP. Incredible. This has to be recognized and conclusions draw. No clapping of themselves on the backs and pretending they made some great gains, instead the self styled revolutionary left have to recognize their failure and analyze why this happened.

A major element in this failure was the continuing sectarianism of the self styled revolutionary left. As i have said before even the two groupings that got together in the AAA/PBP in an effort to have a united front could not achieve this. They had to have two united fronts. Then there were the divisions between all the other left groups and also the AAA PBP. A major portion of the blame for the working class not coming out of this election and the struggles of the past years with a combative organized party which would ruthlessly fight for its interests, is first the role of the leaders of the trade unions and the labor party and second the role of the various self styled revolutionary left groups and their sectarianism. Both their sectarianism to each other and their sectarianism to the working class and also their sectarian internal life and their corrupt internal life. To carry out the socialist revolution in Ireland will take an organization of tens and tens of thousands committed ruthless conscious revolutionaries. It will take an international revolutionary organization of millions. Organizations of such size cannot be built with the sectarian methods of the self styled revolutionary left. Nor the delusions that the self styled revolutionary groups hold, delusions that they use to claim they had a victory when they did not. The two Healey brothers elected in kerry? What the hell is this? Part of a victory????

I was in the Militant group, the now SP in Ireland. I was its first full time member. I know how it works and thinks. i do so because i used to work and think that way too. We never made any mistakes. Everything we did was a victory. It was nonsense. Every meeting we had we congratulated ourselves on what we had done right. i now believe that every revolutionary group should have a monthly meeting have a regular meeting after every big event such as these elections when there is only one topic on the agenda - What mistakes did we make? When i broke from the shackles the method of the self styled revolutionary left, in my case the SP, meant for my thinking I was expelled from that organization. It was the best thing ever happened to me. At present there are some more cracks in that organization's international the CWI. The majority of its Russian section has left citing the CWI's incorrect method and set up its own organization. The majority of its Australian section has left citing a cover up of sexual abuse by the CWI. There is now an opposition developing in the US section of the CWI as it boot licks the Democrat and Zionist and militarist Sanders. Its long past time for the thinking members in the SP in Ireland and the CWI members and ex members internationally to look to building something new and healthy. I would be very glad to hear from people who are thinking about doing this so we can make more progress together along these lines. Sean Throne.

by Sean Throne - Facts For Working Peple Sun Feb 28, 2016 23:04

Irish Elections. How come the right won a majority after years of struggle against austerity.

James Connolly and James Larkin. The two founding leaders of the Irish working class movement.

Sean O'Torain.

The count for Friday’s Irish elections has not yet been concluded. But enough are in to show what happened. The two main capitalist parties which supported the vicious attacks on the working class on behalf of the international capitalists, the so called austerity program, austerity for the working class, but bail out for the bankers, gained 50% of the votes cast. If we add on to that Sinn Fein which in spite of its best efforts to pretend otherwise is a capitalist party, and a few capitalist supporting independents and dribs and drabs, capitalist parties and politicians won between them up to 70 percent of the vote.

This is staggering. After years of hundreds of thousands on the streets against the austerity program, after the great movement which voted in a referendum to make Ireland the first country where same sex marriage was approved in a referendum, and the right wing capitalist parties and politicians get a majority!!!! This is the reality. This must be faced up to. But unfortunately I know what will be happening. I know because I used to be there too. Closing my eyes to reality and pretending all was for the best in the best of all possible worlds.

This is what will be happening. The self styled revolutionary left in Ireland such as the SP, SWP etc will be trying to portray the election results as some sort of victory. This will be a serious mistake. Let me go further . This will be insane. This will be a recipe for disaster. After the offensive of capitalism against the working class over the past years, the so called austerity, to come out of this election with the right wing pro capitalist parties and individuals gaining a clear majority is a serious set back. This much be faced up to and lessons drawn. What is the reason for this victory for the capitalist forces.

The main culprits of course are the leaders of the workers organizations, the Trade Unions and the Labor Party. These leaderships support capitalism, can see no alternative to capitalism, cannot see that the working class could build a new society therefore they join with the capitalist class in holding the working class down. This is what they have done over the last years and as a result prevented the working class from seeing any alternative and from fighting back. The result was large sections of the working class in this election went back to their old parties. They could see no alternative. The Labor Party and Trade Union leaders are the main reason why the right have been returned with a majority.

After the leadership of the Trade Unions and labor Party when it comes to responsibility comes the self styled revolutionary groups. At the height of the crisis when the economy was on the edge of a cliff these self styled revolutionary groups were found wanting. They came up with only the most basic of transitional demands. I agreed with these, do not pay this, do not pay that. I agreed with these. I agreed also with their mass demos. But I did not believe that on either front they went far enough. I believed that the movement should have committed itself to mass direct action to prevent the offensive of the government and the international capitalists from taking out of the pockets of the working class. Mass direct action, not just mass demos, mass direct action, mass strike action and workplace occupations, and pack the country’s jails if that was what it would take. This was the only way the assault on the working class could have been stopped. This should have been openly stated by the self styled revolutionary left.

Then there was the demands of do not pay this do not pay that. As I say I agreed with these but In and of themselves they were not sufficient. The majority of the working class was ahead of the self styled revolutionary groups in this regard and in this sense. They could see that to take effective steps including cancelling the debt to the banks and refusing to pay the new charges to deal with the economic crisis was serious business. The working class knew serious answers were needed. The steps of non payment and cancelling debt would have ended up with the economy and country breaking with the EU, the Euro Zone and world capitalism. The most forward thinking, in fact the mass of the working class knew this. The capitalist class frightened them with this. This had to be answered.

The left were not able to answer this. They were not able to convince the working class that they could deal with this. What was necessary and what I wrote at that time was that a program and strategy should have been drawn up. This to be based on cancelling the country’s debt, taking over the oil and gas wealth, the financial institutions, the major industries, the dominant sectors of the economy. On this basis draw up an itemized budget and plan showing how the economic problems could be dealt with and the country re-built. Showing precisely how the economic problems
could be solved. Where the money would come from. How by cancelling the debt the situation would be changed. Setting out the amount that could be brought together in a reconstruction budget to rebuild the economy. On this basis establishing a democratic socialist plan.

As well as this, and on this basis, the working class taking power into its own hands. And state clearly that yes, this would mean breaking with the international capitalist institutions and the Irish capitalist state. That it would also mean the physical and political taking over of the Irish economy and state and the establishing of a democratic socialist society and a democratic workers state and the spreading of this revolution internationally.

The working class is not stupid. They know when serious business is at hand. And they know when serious alternatives are the only solution. The left did not give these. Ponderous propaganda speeches from Joe Higgins in the Dail about how bad capitalism is do not cut it. So the working class in this election in the main went back to the old alternatives. Sure a few went to the self styled revolutionary groups. But only a few. The right wing Labor Party which has been at the center of the attacks on the working class got more votes than the left wing front the Anti Austerity Alliance of the Socialist Party and the People Before Profit of the Socialist Workers Party. This has to be faced up to and conclusions drawn. It will only add to the set back that these elections represent for the left if the left groups go around now and pat themselves on the back and tell themselves they have had a victory. Instead the left forces have to recognize that they failed to make a break through and recognize why this happened.

A major element in this failure was the continuing sectarianism of the self styled revolutionary left. As I have said many times before even the two groupings that got together in the Anti Austerity Alliance/People Before Profit, in an effort to have a united front could not achieve this. They had to have two united fronts.

Then there were the divisions between all the other left groups and also the AAA PBP. Even to the extent of running a candidate against another good fighting left wing socialist sitting member of parliament. A major portion of the blame for the working class not coming out of this election and the struggles of the past years with a combative organized party which would ruthlessly fight for its interests, is first the role of the leaders of the trade unions and the labor party but second it is the role of the various self styled revolutionary left groups and their sectarianism. Both their sectarianism to each other and their sectarianism to the working class and also their sectarian internal and corrupt internal lives.

To carry out the socialist revolution in Ireland will take an organization of tens and tens of thousands committed ruthless conscious revolutionaries. It will take an international revolutionary organization of millions. Organizations of such size cannot be built with the sectarian methods of the self styled revolutionary left. Nor the delusions that the self styled revolutionary groups hold, delusions that they use to claim they had a victory in this election that the working class had a victory in this election when no such thing occurred. The fact that some on the left are saying that there was a victory is a sure sign of the sectarianism of these groups and people. It shows they are not looking at what happened to the working class as a mass force, to the class balance of forces, but to the one or two extra seats in parliament, or couple of hundred extra votes that they or their groups or candidates won. Sectarianism is a scourge on the working class. It seriously damages the working class.

I was in the Militant group, the now SP in Ireland. I was its first member in Southern Ireland and its first full time member in Ireland as a whole. I know how it works and thinks. I do so because I used to work and think that way too. We never made any mistakes. Everything we did was a victory. It was nonsense. Every meeting we had we congratulated ourselves on what we had done right and the “victories” we had won. I now believe that every revolutionary group should have a regular meeting after every big event such as these elections when there is only one topic on the agenda - What defeats did the working class suffer and what defeats did we suffer and what mistakes did we the left make. I was expelled from the CWI, the parent group of the Irish SP in 1996. I was expelled for refusing any longer to accept its shackles on my mind. My expulsion was the best thing that ever happened to me. It freed my thought.

At present there are some more splits and cracks in the Irish SP’s international organization the CWI. The majority of its Russian section has left citing the CWI's incorrect method and set up its own organization. The majority of its Australian section has left citing a cover up of sexual abuse by the CWI. There is now an opposition developing in the US section of the CWI as it boot licks the Democrat and Zionist and militarist Sanders.

It is long past time for the thinking members in the SP in Ireland and the CWI members and ex members in Ireland and internationally to look to building something new and healthy. This is the only way any of the good work that was done by that organization can be preserved. I would be very glad to hear from people who are thinking about doing this so we can make further progress along these lines. Sean Throne.

by Baggie Mon Feb 29, 2016 14:17

Shocking that the working class have let you down again Paddy. Your wisdom is like pearls before swine - no recognition of your brilliance.

I remember Comrade Lenin when he introduced the New Economic Policy being called a capitalist roader by the likes of yourself.

by Johnny Flaherty Mon Feb 29, 2016 16:22

Despite my great penchant for acute social and political analysis, the Irish proletarian and peasant broad masses will never follow me.They can't eat analysis. So I'll just follow my own lights. Nobody needs me; I just need myself and the pension.

by John Throne - Facts For Working people Mon Feb 29, 2016 16:59

I have stated earlier that it is necessary to analyze why after years of mass struggle against austerity for the working class the right still won a majority in the Irish elections. I stand by this position. I also stand by my position that there were two main reasons for this. One the role of the Trade Union and Labor Party leaders. The other the sectarianism of the left groups and the the left and anti austerity individual candidates. Keeping this in mind I would like to put emphasize on another side of the issue now. That is with close to ten members elected who say they are anti austerity or anti austerity and/or socialists the task now is to take on and crush the sectarianism which has been such a feature of the life of the Irish left. Which organization, which group will take the lead. Which will organize discussions amongst all the anti austerity candidates and organizations. Which will take this step which could lead to a new mass united front or even a new left party within which there could be a democratic internal life and factional rights. Which will make the open break with its sectarianism. This means openly stating that they have been sectarian in the past and are now recognizing this and calling on all others to do the same. This is what is necessary. This can lead to a new mass left either united front or even a mass left party. I am looking forward to this possibility. If the left groups and individuals which got thousands of votes and many got elected elected do not take this step they will be letting down, they will be spitting in the face of, all those who worked for them and voted for them in this election.

Sean throne.
Sent: Sun, Feb 28, 2016 10:31 am
Subject: Irish Elections.

by T Mon Feb 29, 2016 17:24

I'd be less inclined to blame the Left and more inclined to attribute the cause to the very effective pro right/pro capitalist propaganda. It is so persuasive that it could be compared to fish living in water where it hardly notices it anymore, even though it dominates its life and environment.

Likewise the constant media stream and the way debates or lack of them are so narrow and the way they are framed, that it probably causes a cognitive dissonance for many even when they try to think of issues outside of black & white simplistic concepts. In today's world all radical ideas get completely swamped out and constant distractions, distortions, lies and bias from the corporate media mean that the Left voice is too tiny to make a difference.

As a consequence the Left cannot be heard except when they make slightly reformist proposals. These are allowed through to a very small degree but the rest aren't.

And in reply to Sean's comment about To carry out the socialist revolution in Ireland will take an organization of tens and tens of thousands committed ruthless conscious revolutionaries

There is simply zero chance of this ever happening. Any such movement will be infiltrated, co-opted and either destroyed or muted long before it grew to any significance. What is being ignored here is the apparatus of control and the resources available to do it have reached new heights and are largely limitless when the need arises. Even the very notion of a "committed ruthless conscious" revolutionary is a false hope because the level of committment and self education to understand the nature of the system and to see through it is enormous and very very few people are ever going to go to those lengths for a long list of reasons.

It might be argued that committed revolutionaries arise from the deplorable conditions that they live in as a result of the system and I am thinking of the people in the poorest circumstances, but I would argue that the long term festering drug problems in deprived areas have been allowed to happen with the explicit purpose of smashing these communities, destroying any sense of solidarity in so far as they can and rendering the same communities so damaged they are unable to generate any response or acquire any real awareness.

by gate crasher Mon Feb 29, 2016 19:38

The left will not bring a rise in welfare or the minimum wage - first off ,where is it going to come from??? Tax the working and middle class?? Their plan to tax the rich who have made a fine art out of dodging tax and moving their money around - simply won't work,all the rich will do is pack their bags and move out - with that we will see multinationals leaving Ireland for better tax haven options elsewhere,that is simply what we are up against..Ruth coppinger seems to think she can man all the baristas in Starbucks if they leave this small country,and at the same time hold down a government job!Is she delusional?Is this the best and brightest of the left?Have a good listen,she said she could ''man all the starbucks baristas'' if Starbucks up and left!!! This leftist windbag needs exposing and fast...https://twitter.com/TodaySOR/status/696656529739669504 The people that are voting for these socialists are mostly working class and the welfare class - they don't seem to grasp the fact that money has to be generated,you simply cannot print it for no good reason,something has to be behind it,whether graft,or gold or some sort of solid investment,it doesnt just self-print?!The truth about socialism as an ideaology is that it is DEVASTATING - look at sweden,which has been under the inflexible socialist model since the 1930's,they have a widespread muslim rape and drug problem,and there is a total media black out on this due to government control of their society - anybody that speaks out will regret it,lose their jobs or their life,and be treated like some sort of social pariah...In north korea socialism clearly hasnt worked - we have north koreans eating grass out of sheer desperation as they are so hungry...The stasi in poland?That was socialism in action...Venezuela?There are women prostituting themselves for mere morsels of food!!!!In Nazi times in Germany?That was socialism too!!!!!!!It was the nationalist flavour of socialism,but socialism all the same,the two combined made for a deadly regime...Socialism has not really changed integerally from the times of Adolf Hitler,it has like a virus merely mutated into open-borders extremism,which is equally as dangerous..It is still integerally the same ideaology - it is about government control,and the clamping down of free speech and individual expression,that is the truth and anybody that subscribes to that,clearly hasn't a clue,how people struggled under the socialist regime...They need to sit down and open the history books and study politics and the difference between certain ideologies as cleary they do not have a clear grasp of this...Swapping one pair of nazi jackboots for simply another does not impress or fool me and i certainly won't EVER be voting for these socialists...We need to get out of the mindset of voting ''right'' or ''left'' and see these self serving individuals minding their seats in the Dail for who they really are!!!!!!You got to look at who is doing all the lobbying in politics,no matter who you vote for - everybody has a price,even the precious ''left''..

by Paddy Hackett Mon Feb 29, 2016 22:28

Hi John

I remember you from the past. However I never met you. You were from the six counties. As I understand it you were very much a leading member of the Militant Group. It was said that you were a full time paid member of the Irish version of the group. I never understood what had happened to you. It is ironical, in a sense, that you are on the outside of the offspring of the Militant Group. I would never have believed that this kind of marginalism was possible. To me Militant and you were joined at the hips. Now youngsters like deputy Paul Murphy are the thing. You would think you never existed. However if my memory serves me right you were very anti-Provo while I was a dedicated member of Sinn Fein Kevin Street. In those days being a serious Provo was a more challenging enterprise than it is today. Anyway...

It is the theory, perspective, programme and organisation of these self styled radical left groups or parties that is, in a sense, the source of the problem.

Their problem is that they are under the illusion that the problems of the Irish working can be solved within the structure of capitalism. Consequently they present demands that they mistakenly believe to be realisable under capitalism. In this way they reinforce and even create illusions in small sections of the working class concerning capitalism. Little if any of political debating and discussing among workers, largely speaking, is based on the necessity of communist revolution. It is generally concerned with the need for more public services, benefits and pay. The assumption is that a good capitalism can provide these “things.” The Aristotelian good society is now capitalism. If capitalist society can provide these goodies then the need for a social revolution is superfluous.

These soi disant radical left parties can hardly be described as even reformist. Their programmes are hardly even Bersteinian. They don't really subscribe to the evolution through reforms of capitalist society into a “socialist” society. In other words they don't even subscribe to The Peaceful Road To Socialism formally adhered to by the Stalinist British Communist Party of yore. This provides an indicator as to how reactionary they are.

They are so degenerate that they are not even capable of internal reform. Indeed they politically destroy good people who join them. I have in mind in particular the Socialist Party and the Socialist Workers Party. I was an erstwhile member of the latter party. It was intellectually and politically stifling. It was organised along Stalinist lines. All important decisions were made clandestinely behind the backs of the general membership. The so called leadership was verging on paranoia and suspicious of any minuscule divergence from its “official” line. It had the characteristics of a religious cult such as the Mooneys. It was to a large extent a home for “lost souls.” If you differed over an insignificant detail with “the leadership” its membership was forbidden from interacting with you. You were put in Coventry. After that experience I was never to join another political party or group.

by T Mon Feb 29, 2016 22:47

Well that's an odd statement. What the Left want to do is use the existing tax income and distribute the spending of it more equally instead of giving tax breaks and all sorts of incentives to the rich to get richer. FG already sold off several billions worth of property through NAMA to foreign vulture funds which are now proceeding to prey on the people unfortunate enough to have to rent. None of this property was even offered to the people living in it. There are many cases where whole apartment blocks were sold off with the price per apartment being extremely low for the vulture funds. There still plenty of other porky pie giveaways for the rich which could be stopped if we had the Left in government.

Actually Ruth Copperinger didn't say she would run the baristas herself. She said Irish people are capable of doing it with the likes of Starbucks who only paid €38,000 in Ireland since 2009 which is an absolute disgrace.

The rest of the comment is just a mindless rant. I mean this statement: "..look at sweden,which has been under the inflexible socialist model since the 1930's,they have a widespread muslim rape and drug problem..." is idiotic. Do you seriously think Sweden which has for the last 50+ years, probably one of the most socially progressive with health, educational and social services far ahead of most countries, with one of the best childcare systems, great infrastructure, educated workforce and people and a country of great opportunities and the list could go on and you are saying they have some kind of huge drug and rape problem and it's all because of socialism. That must rank as one of the most absurd statements ever. Sure like most countries they probably have their own drug problem. I doubt it's the biggest one going though and attributable to socialism?

Anyhow what the comment does demonstrate is this mindset that we are helpless and can't and shouldn't change anything and fall into line in the race to the bottom. Ultimately a defeatist attitude. If it were 1916 again, I guess you would be urging people not to upset Britain because we could never get independence.

by gatecrasher Tue Mar 01, 2016 08:00

So what you are saying is Ruth Coppinger will have the state pay for these people to RUN starbucks baristas themselves and turn it into yet another hopeless government scheme,where the state picks up the tab....Great idea why don't we all sign up to that???Im not saying Fine Gael/Fianna Fail/LAB are any better,but what we need is STABILITY,wheeler dealers who can cut the deal and get a slice of the cake,do you think your socialist jackboot friends can do that???They will be cast out on their ear in no time!The truth is Paul Murphy and his ilk DO NOT WANT TO GET FULL POWER - They would positively sh*t themselves if they got full power,they would have to take the reigns,take critisism and engage in hard graft while putting up with political dirty tricks from the opposition...Paul murphy on radio 1 said he didn't WANT THAT...What he is really trying to say is,he does not want responsibliity,he does not have solutions,he is clearly happy to shout from the sidelines and pick up an easy paycheck minus the hard graft of politics..
Just to clarify what is going on in sweden,there is clearly a lot of ignorance surrounding this muslim rape issue,have a quick look at these videos ...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlG75wb7lLw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZtc2ma2GEQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_FB1g52Goo
And finally a piece by Geert Wilders...Have a quick watch,open your mind and see what is really happening over there;https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zSmSdxRUtE

by Johnny Flaherty Tue Mar 01, 2016 08:54

Paddy Hackett says it for me in an above post: "It had the characteristics of a religious cult such as the Mooneys." [moonies] One reason Left Unity is such a phantasm is that left ideologists have been repeating the theological fanaticisms of medievalists and their successors. I want bread and butter, not otherworldly theories.

by John Throne - Facts For Working People Tue Mar 01, 2016 13:33

I wish to thank those who responded to my comments on the Irish elections, especially Paddy Hacket and Johnny Flaherty. In relation to the self styled revolutionary left and their undemocratic, sectarian corrupt internal lives I would like to ask the Comrades to go to my Blog page and at the top see the article "The internal lives of Revolutionary Organizations." This gives some idea of how far I have evolved in my position from my early days. And my position is still evolving. My Blog page is weknowwhatsup.blogspot.com

Yes it is correct that I was "joined at the hip" as Paddy says with the Militant the forerunner of the SP. I was its first member in Southern Ireland. I was its first full timer in Ireland as a whole. But as Paddy says it is as if I never existed. I was also the first full timer for the Committee For a Workers International, the international body to which the SP is affiliated, in the US, and there too it is as if i never existed. See the websites of these organizations. I have been written out of history. This is the method of Stalinism without the violence. If I am ever mentioned it is to be lied about by the leadership of these organizations. They even say that I stole money from them. I who sold a house I lived in in Crumlin in Dublin to get money for printing equipment for the then Militant. I was expelled from the Militant/CWI in 1996. Contrary to what they claim in their constitution that if you are expelled you have the right to appeal against your expulsion. I tried to attend many conferences of sections of this organization, one in the North Star Hotel in Dublin But was not allowed in to appeal against my expulsion. I went to see Joe Higgins whom i had recruited to socialism and to the Militant when he was at UCD. i asked him to support my right to appeal. We met in the Buswells Hotel. He sat clutching a bunch of CWI documents to his chest and said: "I will not support your right to appeal. You got yourself into this mess yourself and you can get out of it yourself." Then he got up and ran from the hotel. The only person in Ireland who took a principled stand against my expulsion was the late Bill Webster. He came to the US to see if what was being said about me was correct. He concluded it was lies and went back to Derry and resigned from the SP and the CWI in protest at the way i was treated. To add insult to injury Joe Higgins went to Bill's funeral and claimed him for the SP and the CWI. I can think of no depths to which the leadership of the SP will not sink to hold on to their positions and cover their tracks.

But to the essence of my expulsion. The Militant, the CWI and I myself had argued for decades that capitalism would not go back to the former Soviet Union. That instead there would be a political revolution and this society would move on to democratic socialism. We also argued that a new economic collapse similar to that of 1929 was coming in the 1970's or 1980's and out of this and the political revolution in the former Soviet Union would come a new democratic socialist world. Talk about a mistaken perspective. I was part of developing and arguing for this wrong perspective. We also did not see the advent of new technology and its affects. These were major mistakes, mistakes of historic proportions. We expected the world to take a further step forward and eradicate capitalism and establish democratic socialism instead the world took a step back and re-established capitalism in the former Soviet Union and China now also looks to be heading in that direction. I repeat this was no small mistake. I wanted to discuss this mistake in the CWI, first to acknowledge it and then discuss it. Why had we made such a huge mistake? Was there a mistake in our method. But this was not the approach of the rest of the majority of the leadership of the CWI. I was part of the 6 person leadership at that time. The majority of the rest of that leadership refused to face up to the major mistakes we had made. They denied they had made them blaming others, blaming this and that, saying they had saw it coming, all lies. their whole emphasis was to keep themselves in the leadership and to keep themselves with the image of the all seeing all knowing never making a mistake leadership. I refused to go along with this. i openly admitted my own part in these mistakes and demanded the organization and the rest of the leadership do the same. The majority of the rest of the leadership refused. So i had to be silenced. i had to be written out of the history. This is what happened, this is why i do not appear anywhere in the history of the CWI/SP. But the leadership for the CWI/SP made some other mistakes. They did not see the advent of the Internet. i communicate regularly with hundreds of members and ex-members of the CWI/SP. I help run a Blog which has had over 900,000 page views. weknowwhatsup.blogspot.com The leadership of the CWI/SP have not been able to write me out of history.

I have a couple of issues however I would like to discuss with the Comrades on this thread. I still believe that capitalism has to be overthrown. i still believe, in fact more than ever that unless it is overthrown life on earth as we know it will be wiped out. And not in the next centuries but in the next decades. And i also believe that for capitalism to be overthrown we need a mass revolutionary organization of tens and hundreds of millions. I believe there is no alternative. I go into how i see such an organization being built in the piece on our blog to which i refer. (I do not know how to make a link or I would. Please go to our Blog page). I believe we who believe that capitalism has to be overthrown and that the self styled revolutionary left organizations are incapable of build a mass international of tens and hundreds of millions have face up to these realities and put our shoulders to the wheel and try to build something healthy, to build revolutionary organizations with a healthy internal life, a new and healthy culture. Not the culture that now exists which is based on the years when Bolshevism was being crushed by Stalinism and new and rotten and dictatorial organizations were being built in the name of revolutionary workers organizations.

I would be interested in communicating with the Comrades who still wish to end capitalism and who wish to draw conclusions from the false methods of the self styled revolutionary left. My former Comrades in the CWI/SP are very reluctant to discuss with me as if they do so they will be driven out of their own existing organizations. This goes to ridiculous lengths. I recently wrote a book called The Donegal Woman. It was number two in the best sellers list in Northern Ireland. It was based on the life of my grandmother peasant woman from Donegal who had been in the hiring out system and physically and sexually abused. The sectarianism of my former organization was and is so great that with two or three exceptions they boycotted its Dublin launch and denounced it as a "flop. I am presently at my last but one final editing of a book of my own life from a small farmer background in Donegal, where my family were leaders of the orange Order, to an international revolutionary socialist via the Bogside uprising. This will also go into my experience with organizing with the CWI/SP and also my general revolutionary and life experiences. I am still looking for a name for it. John (Sean) Throne.