World Atheist Convention in Dublin

by PhilAtheist Sun May 08, 2011 13:36

An atheist myself and was very interested in going to convention but with a €100 admission fee sadly i will not be able to make it i dont think many working class Atheists will be able to afford €100 euro sounds very elitist to me .

by Atheist Sun May 08, 2011 15:33

it would be cheaper to become a catholic. At least the collection basket each sunday only expect a few euro. Its almost like going to a concert at the point or something pricewise. Worse in fact. Wonder what Dawkins would have to say about the exclusive admission price? I know he would like the atheist message to reach a wider audience. This kind of thing doesn't help.

Perhaps some video/audio of Dawkins and others speaking will surface after the event? Maybe some rich thoughtful atheist with a voice recorder will oblige the rest of us and post something here.

by Continuity Atheist Sun May 08, 2011 17:56

52 sundays in a year plus quarterly dues thats a lot and dont forget holy days of obligation and the peters pence collection every sunday to keep the Vatican going. The Catholic Church got off easy paying just a couple of hundred million for all the abuse that took place in Industrial schools and such places. So far its cost us the taxpayers more than a billion.

The conference is too expensive but its not an ordinary meeting its a World Atheist Conference. Flying in speakers from around the world and paying for their accomodation doesnt come cheap.

by Atheist Sun May 08, 2011 18:02

can't argue with any of that. That cynical limited indemnity they signed in collusion with FF should be repealed due to deliberate holding back of relevant info at time of contract.

That billion they owe us would go some way towards secularising our schools if we got it in the form of school property from the church.

And we can't afford to be be paying compensation for the church's sexual abuses in a recession. The Irish taxpayer didn't abuse anyone so why are they paying for it??

Quite aside from the disgusting cynical irony of making all victims of religious sexual abuse essentially pay part of the compensation for their own sexual abuse at the hands of the church.

Urgh... what totally evil bastards, both FF and the church authorities

by Heathen. Wed May 11, 2011 11:59

Àlthough I am an atheist myself I appreciate that the prospect of rotting away in the grave being eaten by worms frightens people.

Better to have a supernatural being lifting us out of our rotting corpse.

by pat c Wed May 11, 2011 12:21

Be cremated or donate your body to science; whats left will be cremated. No need to worry about worms.

I'm an agnostic myself but agnostic towards the Old Religions. You don't have to believe in the reality of The Morrigan as a Godess to see her as an Archetype and Inspiration. It is said that Celtic Warriors shouted her name as they went into battle. Be a Celt and you might go to the Otherworld.

Morrígu!

Morrígu

by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite party Wed May 11, 2011 12:39

One of these days the atheists will have to give up that superstitious belief that there aint no god and just admit the scientific fact that its is a three-letter-word and has been around for a while, mutations included.

And behold, therein lieth thy trinity. Three letters adding up to one word. Oh ye of infinite credulity...

by Heathen. Wed May 11, 2011 12:47

Ah now Opus!
The only reason the Irish fled to the mereciful Christian god is because they were terrified of the merciless Morrigan.

by pat c Wed May 11, 2011 12:57

Nothing nasty about The Morrigan. Say that again and she'll send her crows to peck your eyes out! She was the original Trinity, Maiden, Mother Crone. Theres a christian fairytale that St Patrick used a shamrock to teach the Pagan Irish about the christian Trinity. Well, thats a sham. The Pagan Irish knew all about Trinities.

by Scandinavian.. Wed May 11, 2011 13:13

There is at film out now called Thor.

Before the Christians arrived the Morrigan and Thor were long battling it out.
(Thor=Thursday.)

From the murderous world of old Scandinavia.

by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite party Wed May 11, 2011 14:52

Bob Quinn in his book 'The Atlantean Irish' traces the shamrock back to the Arabic shamrakh, again a trefoil emblem of triune symbolism, and related to the Persian sacral tradition of triads.

aside from which the book is an interesting challenge to the recieved Roman 'wisdom'.

by Tony - None Wed May 11, 2011 15:33

If there's no God, there's no Devil, so why are you named after the work of something that doesn't exist ? It's kind of apt, actually, because a lot of your observations have no basis in any kind of measureable reality.

by Jay - None Wed May 11, 2011 15:35

Morrigu was hot.

by Atheist Wed May 11, 2011 15:55

It just goes to show. There are lots of different gods lying about through history. Take your pick. I think if we must worship, why not worship the sun? After all, at least we know it's there. And it gives us life and keeps us warm.

Christians and muslims and jews deride atheists for not believing their god exists.
Yet christians, muslims and jews don't believe all those other gods exist either. Such hypocrisy!

Atheists just go one god further!

George Carlin (RIP PBUH)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o

by Pat - R C Wed May 11, 2011 16:37

No, we don't deride atheists for not believing in our Gods, we just think it's really touching that they're so fervent and devout in their disbelief. It's almost fundamentalist in its intensity.

by pat c Wed May 11, 2011 18:30

Looking at the list of speakers at the conference above i'd say the only thing they all agree on is that they are Atheists. Some are socialists, some aren't. They do not have one world view.

by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite party Thu May 12, 2011 11:35

Pay attention back there.

I wrote that the 'superstitious belief that there aint no god..' will have to be surrendered. Its a belief that mirrors the belief in a god.

I hold such questions unknowable, except to the extent you create your own internal 'answers'. My attitude is to keep an open mind on what is beyond the reach of my capabilities. And a sceptical one.

God, as you write, like the 'devil' is in the mind of the beholder. Ultimately the pope's god is not identical with the cardinal's in the next pew. Hence circular theological debate to the eternal self-satisfaction of those who are more interested in esoteric speculation that the conditions of those around them. I find the temporal material conditions sufficient to keep me scratching the cranium without obfuscating thing even further by fighting over the deck-chairs as the metaphorical iceberg looms(our species capacity for destruction amplified exponentially through technological leverage coupled to primitive animal behaviours).

As for my appellation, thats to express my appreciation of the comic delusions of such manifestations as opus dei, and to set out my standpoint as succinctly as possible. Ditto my political label.

And for my 'observations' and 'measurable reality', thats a matter of how you measure YOUR reality. My observations/opinions conform to my accumulated data and their processing. Of course, the bio-chip is still at an early prototypical stage and transmissions carry no warranty.
And your judgement of my relevance, or otherwise, is YOUR observation. What measurable reality do YOU base it on?
I hope that clarifies.
Any further questions?Hal is now up and running for consultation, for a limited trial period.

by pat c Thu May 12, 2011 12:25

Some Christians try to smear Paganism as Satanism. Its not. It was there before Christianity. In Ireland the Christian Church took on many of the trappings of Paganism making Brid into St Brigid. The Marian Cult is largely based on The Morrigan, the Christians very sneakily co opted the Celtic Goddess of War into being the peaceful mother of Jesus.

Pagans were slaughtered and those who continued to practice their beliefs, when uncovered, were burned at the stake. If some fundamentalists, both catholic & protestant, could get away with it they would burn Pagans again. They would also of course slaughter Atheists & Agnostics.

Those who believe in the Old Religions should link up with Agnostics and Atheists. We have a common enemy.

by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite party Fri May 13, 2011 13:48

trouble with that, pat, is that the most 'Satanic' acts, the enslavement, incarceration and rape of children, seem to have been perpetrated by those who believed they had the right line from the one true church and that the evil was located OUTSIDE of themselves. Often the kids were seen as the evil temptation to be resisted, and if the perpetrator succumbed it was the childs evil fault and they must be punished.
Religion seems to be conducive to self-delusion, whether pagan or otherwise. There are people who actiually ASPIRE to being evil, for the sake of the power surge, but I'd imagine most who would claim to adhere to Satanism are just deluded idiots who are indulging their animal instincts to inspire fear because they are consumed by animal fears, and like the bully, the act of bullying can stem from a history of being bullied(often in the home)and a fear and learned lesson that the world requires we bully or be bullied. Lucifer was originally just Venus, the Morning Star. With its carnal connotations it did not agree with the churches political agendas, best served by the control and repression and even eventually the demonisation of sexuality.

I'd rather keep the analysis more rational. We are basically animals and our human faculties are NOT universal to all hominids. I reckon full humanity requires us to identify with the predicament of the species and each individual attempt to develop and transcend the animal ego, the self-serving at all costs mentality. My shorthand is ' you're not human till you realise ALL kids are your kids'. I'd rather live with the doubts than lean on false certainties based on wishful thinking. There are malicious fuckers out there, but they are vastly outnumbered by well-meaning individuals fully convinced they are the honoured recipients of the God-given truth.
Or to put it common parlance, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Thats why I'm wary of 'revolution', I've met too many pig-headed (unintended Mr Orwell)and strident decriers of the current farm management who at the back of it all seemed frustrated and power-hungry. History is full of examples. More Mugabes than Fidels. Arthur Miller's The Crucible illustrates the righteous delusion, as do the neo-con born-again 'muscular Christianity' fundamentalists, who have no trouble allying with Zionism to induce their Armageddon showdown, cos that gonna bring salvation n divine justice, brudda. Meantime the blood deepens and they forget the only way this cold old universe is ever going to acquire a quantum of actual justice is when us hominids practise and create it daily, and stop acting the fucking monkey. Jaysis that ran on a bit. Enda sermin.

by Michael Gallagher Tue May 31, 2011 10:20

It seems Mammon is the god here.

by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite party Tue May 31, 2011 13:27

If your actual 'god' is whatever you hold to be the highest in your estimation, then money is indeed the general highest common denominator.

And, as suits the denominator in mathematics, it sure is some divisor.

Maybe we should set up the church, and make it overt. Think of all the loot-addicts we'd skin. It'd be as good as that split-derivative scam.
Actually thats how a lot of the born-again neo-con churches stateside prosper.

Meantime, jesus wept(and probably kicked himself for not thinking of it first).

by D_D Tue May 31, 2011 19:01

Good to see this in Dublin. But should we be joining them in an O'Callaghan minimum-wage-cutting Hotel? Maybe it has union members like the Davenport.

by Michael Gallagher Fri Jun 03, 2011 11:07 libertypics at yahoo dot ie

What brand of firelighters do they use in that thing you call hell? Does it depend on the brand of your god?

I'm an athiest and proud of it.

Thanks be ta jaysus!

These meetings should be on the streets and in community halls where us commoners have access.

I hope I don't get any hot spam for that one.

by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite party Sat Jun 04, 2011 19:38

He was paying the price religious heretics always pay. His crime was offending the Jewish sectarian EXCLUSIVENESS by claiming the goyim had full humanity and equal rights to Jews, not an agreeable credo for Caiaphas, the High Priest of the jerusalem temple. Bad for the racial superiority complex and the delicate ego.

Rome saw the draw of this eclectic lateral idea and INCORPORATED it into their religious doctrines(stricly for the mass consumption of the subjugated barbarians, not the Janus-worshiping ruling class, Janus being the two-faced god); which required JC's DEIFICATION(something Rome bestowed on all its emperors), to subvert the subversive threat of this egalitarian thinking, which would undermine the pyramid power structures of all empires.

His pacifism, which saw the counterproductive effects of violent retaliation, which always leads to escalations of brutality, was dumped(non-kosher for the imperial expansion)and Roman Catholicism(an oxymoron, as is national socialism, free market etc) emerged to lead the imperial project into the global conquests which followed. The pacifism was however maintained to PACIFY resistance from the masses.

As they say in Africa, when the white man landed we held our land and he held a bible and told us to kneel and close our eyes and he would bless us.
When we opened our eyes we held the bible and he held the land.

He was probably hanging on a cross to save firewood, not a problem for Rome on the european homeland, where burning at the stake after inquisitional torture was the buzz. It teaches the peasants not to get OUT OF LINE. And the crosses are RECYCLABLE(early greens anyone?).
a.k.a. 'the deterrent effect of capital punishment'. Hence the popularithy of the bible in the slave states of the southern US, where lynchin, burnin n flayin were long the national sport. The problem for authoritarianism is that the subversion of the subversion contains its OWN potential subversion if the heirarchies are not strictly maintained, as happened with the democratic rebellions of PROTESTantism against the totalitarian dictatorship of Rome. It could also explain why Rome just cant find it in its heart to condemn child-sacrafice in its priests when it rears its lovely head.
That same egalitarianism is what terrifies our 'christian' empires about Islam, where social justice is still found to be central to its teaching, hence it has replaced communism as the new threat to polarising capitalist MAMMON-worship(theres that Janus again, still, as ever, the one true god of all us good hypocrites).
Trouble with them moslems is they dont just preach egalitarianism, a lot of the fuckers seem to PRACTISE it. Not kosher. But we're workin on it by promoting Wahhabist sectarianism.Dont tell anyone. It might damage the sacred economy.

by Bad Chick Sat Jun 04, 2011 21:13

Report from the conference, more at link.

Bacik warns atheist convention of 'creeping fundamentalism in Irish life'
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0604/1....html

Senator Ivana Bacik warned in Dublin last night of “a creeping fundamentalism in Irish life” which was “a real problem we have”.

She would approve, she said, a ban on genital mutilation of males in Ireland. Last Thursday she received unanimous support in the Seanad for her proposals to ban female genital mutilation in Ireland. The “creeping fundamentalism” she referred to was evident in the US, she said, but in Ireland it was “perhaps more sophisticated, where columnists talk of choice, yet oppose change where Catholic schools are concerned”, she said.

She cited the introduction by the previous government of new blasphemy legislation, a move akin to that praised in Pakistan as a victory for the fundamentalist lobby.

Ms Bacik was speaking at the first World Atheist Convention in Ireland, which began in Dublin yesterday and continues through the weekend. Organised by Atheist Ireland, on Sunday it will discuss and adapt the Dublin Declaration on Religion in Public Life.

Presenting herself as “the only ‘out’ atheist in the Oireachtas”, the Senator knew “quite a few others who were either atheist or agnostic”, but who remain “in the closet for now”. What she and others in Atheist Ireland sought was “a modern secular Republic where religions thrive side by side, with no dominant religion”.

by Meme Mon Jun 06, 2011 18:43

More reports from conference.

FREEDOM OF expression and of religion “should be limited only by the need to respect the rights and freedoms of others”, according to the Dublin Declaration on Secularism and the Place of Religion in Public Life, adopted unanimously at the World Atheist Convention yesterday.

The declaration also states that “the sovereignty of the State is derived from the people and not from any God or gods”.

Speaking to The Irish Times yesterday, well-known atheist Prof Richard Dawkins said the Irish Constitution should be reformed to “remove all influence of the Roman Catholic Church and all other churches . . . incorporating tolerance for all religions”.

Referring to the oath that must be taken by Irish presidents and judges, he said they might as well take an oath “to Zeus or Thor” as to God.

He “rejoiced” at the growth of secularism in Ireland and when he read the papers “about the pathetically diminished number of priests”.

He hoped the churches would “wither away”, describing the Catholic Church as “an evil institution . . . by far the worst where the churches are concerned”.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0606/1....html

World atheist convention chairman of irish group explains atheist 'arrogance'
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0606/1...a=rel

ATHEISTS WERE arrogant “because we do not believe that the entire universe was created for our benefit”, Michael Nugent, chairman of Atheist Ireland told the convention.

They were arrogant because they did not believe “that the most powerful being ever created a universe of over 100 billion galaxies, each with over 100 billion stars like our sun, which existed for 14 billion years, and then picked one of the 100 billion galaxies and picked one of the 100 billion stars in that galaxy, and picked one planet revolving around that star and of the million species on that planet he picked one animal member of all those species and said: ‘I’ve really got to tell that guy to stop gathering sticks on the Sabbath’.”

Mr Nugent thanked delegates for the success of the convention, despite attempts to sabotage it by false e-mails saying it was called off. A man also falsely ordered in loads of pizzas and 11 bunches of flowers to the convention. Later the man inadvertently confirmed he had ordered the pizzas and flowers and would now be billed via the gardaí.

“It’s the sort of thing one gets used to in Ireland,” Mr Nugent said, and referred to those who, in 2009, saw “Their Lady” on a tree stump in Rathkeale, Co Limerick. He recalled a comment at the time that “if she looked like that it’s no wonder she was a virgin”.

He recalled how when an atheist woman died in Donegal recently there was nowhere to bury her except a municipal graveyard in Derry. When asked where in the graveyard she was buried, the reply was “the Protestant section”.

by Soft Treader. Tue Jun 07, 2011 17:04

Although I agree with Dawkins I think his manner is a bit over-the-top and counter-productive.
He is treading on people's dreams of immortality.

As Yeats said:
"Tread softly for you tread on my dreams."