Planning reform needed in the Republic

by G. Gdss Sun May 06, 2007 20:47

Noel OGara I thought he is brilliant. man to stand up tfor his rights and protect his family etc. . Fair play to him. If we have a few more of those Noel O'Garas around the country we would do okayl.
Is this election saga today for real I wonder.? I S/Feinn and Independents are not getting a look in. Fine Gael and Rabitt seem to be already running the show. Any comments I'd love to hear. (no voting at weekends makes me suspecious) Let'sknow Is there something funny about it Thanking you all

by Noel O'Gara - accountant Mon May 07, 2007 10:10

Yes indeed the election was called for a Thursday to pervert our democracy or whats left of it.
Bertie didnt want students to vote because they are a threat to his tired policies and he has prevented thousands of commuters who work in the city and will not have the time to go to the polling booths.
He should have looked at the French Republic for a little guidance in Republican democracy. They had their election on Sunday and got a record turnout over 80 per cent. Bertie clearly favours the low turnout. I wonder what he is afraid of?
But his deception may backfire on him if enough of our people waken up to reality.

by W. Finnerty. Mon May 07, 2007 11:28

I assume from above you are running for election?

If so, I really hope you get elected.

I hope others who can think for themselves will join in with you, and hopefully get elected as well.

It's well time now for the "brain-dead" followers of their corrupt leaders to be put out, and kept out, of Dail Eireann (in my view).

by Noel O'Gara - THE PLANNING REFORM PARTY Mon May 07, 2007 13:21

Yes William,
I am running in the Midlands constituencies of Laoise Offaly, Roscommon and Longford Westmeath and in one Dublin constituency in which is located my land known as Dartmouth Square. That should be interesting and I hope the residents will exercise their vote for me and at least give me their number 2.
Dubliners are as much a victim of the planners as the country land owners and farmers as every Dub will tell you.

The Irish republic has been stolen from us by our own political masters and I want to help to waken people up to what has happened.

You are right when you say they are asleep and look at what has happened while they slept.
Now our freedoms are gone and we have to ask for permission from corrupt officials to build on our own land.
We cant even own a dog anymore not to mention try our hand at a bit of fishing without a licence today.
Is that what the 800 years of wars and strife was all about?
We had as much if not more freedom under the British administration.
Today we are a nation of servants to the state.

by neddy Mon May 07, 2007 13:33

I agree with much of what you say Noel.
It isn't right that the state has taken over from the landlords in ownership of the land.
However you are advocating something close to a free-for-all in the way we should use our land.
This country is much too small for that.
Perhaps you can tell us more about your policies on building, water & sewerage services,
fishing etc.

by hn Mon May 07, 2007 14:06

How on earth can you run in all those constituancies? Surely legally you must choose only one?

by Land Devel. Mon May 07, 2007 15:32

Q. 1. Noel Do you support other Independents around the country (not the ones who are still linked to the main parties) Can you name some of them in the West who you would support and agree with?
Hope you get it. Our land is our prideand joy. AIreland is a agriculture country too.. Good luck,
Appreciate if you will answer this for me. Thanks

by Noel O'Gara - THE PLANNING REFORM PARTY Mon May 07, 2007 16:03

We dont need laws that place effective ownership in the planners and the corruption this brings in its wake.

We need guidelines only such as no development on road corners close to railway lines canals etc.
Why should you not build in your own back yard if you have the space and you need a new building or you wish to sell the site of your yard?

I cant see any reason why one cant do it unless you go up high and block the light of the neighbours. In that case you should only have to get the neighbours consent and that should be sufficient. If no consent is coming then keep to the single storey level and nobody can be discomoded.
If the building is say twenty yards or more back down the yard from the house then you could go up two storeys or even three.
With freedom like this it would eliminate a lot of frustration and lets face it if you dont have parking space you would not open a restaurant in your back yard. The market would determine the choices you would consider.
Why should you not turn your home into an office or a shop if you want to and if the market is there?
Why should you not park your car in your own garden?
There are neighbours from Hell always whether the owners are free or the planners rule the roost.

I dont know any other independants I'm afraid. As you probably know I have been in the news about my land in Dublin and I just thought the election was a way to highlight what I am at loggerheads with the bureaucrats for.
There was no referendum for the planning laws which destroy our constituitional rights so in a way my challenge will be a referendum if it gets the public ear and the media give my side of the story.

If anybody thinks I am doing the right thing I would appreciate if they could print out my original post on this thread and hand it out to their friends and ask them to vote for me or email me and I will send you a printers copy.

I dont wish to be in politics but I do want to be free and they have taken most of our freedom away and turned us into dependants who need their mammy's permission for everything we wish to do.
Our republic is a faded dream of the past because of these planning laws.

by Devel. Mon May 07, 2007 16:15

anks for the feedback. I understand where you are coming from.

by C. Mon May 07, 2007 21:38

Can I just say how incredibly lucky you are to have a whole lot of ground rent in D6,
a Park In Dartmouth Square and a community in hostage.

O why then is indymedia necessary to your life?

I think that a bit of historical reading on enclosures and ownership of common
land might be in order- the period is fascinating.

of course reducing arguments to the old chestnuts (forgive the pun) of
socialism versus right-wing dominance and inequality needs a whole
website of its own. its easy enough to start one off.

Common land is at a premium in the Capital. Mr O Gara.
why don't you build a fecking playground and let the kids of dublin enjoy their childhood
instead of terrorising and bullying their parents with your 'surprises'

I read the article on the ground rent in Dartmouth Square.

Three residents of Kenilworth have had their auctions stopped in recent years
over freehold/groundrent issues for which the sales have been held up at a
loss and the only one benefitting has been the owner of that land ????
There is quite a dossier on the D6 area being built up by residents of combined
Squares.

by Noel O'Gara - THE PLANNING REFORM PARTY Tue May 08, 2007 23:12

You are quite wrong in suggesting I stop children playing. That is a whinge and you know it. Those children you talk of have their own gardens and other parks and I dont take my dog to them to keep my flat clean.
Dartmouth square was private land for a hundred years or more and has only been a public park for 17 years.
That was done by the city council against the written protests of the owners and still the council ignored the warnings.
Its all very well for the council to take another persons land and make a park out ot it and then bad mouth the owner when he looks for his rights by taking him to court as a criminal.
They had twenty years to buy it from the man who sold it to me and they bitched about deeds of 1890 and other such peripheral and irrelevant details and thats why they wouldnt give the man his money.
When I heard of his dillemma I asked him if he would sell it to me and he did.
I happen to be a victim of their oppressive laws and they closed down my business 5 years ago and I havent the prospect of a penny compensation since. In the meantime prices have escalated and my compensation was fixed five years ago but will I ever see it?
If you owned the square, would you give it as a gift to the residents who dont want to buy it but want the corporation to acquire it for them and that means maintaining it as a manicured garden for their benefit with public money.
The city council are bureaucrats and we have put incompetant people in charge of our affairs.
They have the virtual ownership of all the land because they control the use of it.
George Redmond was their chief planner for many years.
Do you think he ever gave permission to any builder without getting a bribe?
Why would he when he realised he was sitting on a cash cow?
The planning laws have corrupted officialdom at the expense of the public who have to live in the Ballymuns of Dublin.
So dont feel so sad for the rich residents of Dartmouth square because there are many poor people in Dublin who are lliving in terrible conditions because of the planners who run this country like the Russian politburo, prior to Gorbachev.
When the landowners get their constitutional rights back housing will be developed by businessmen to meet the market demand and the public will have choice which is not available now.
Remember that Dartmouth square was built prior to the planning laws and Dublin also. What has been built since they were installed is jerry built, mickey mouse sized flats of uniform appearance and housing estates devoid of infrastructure and facilities.
Irish towns and villages were built by land owners pre planning laws and thats why its such a beautiful country.
The developments of recent times are banal, concrete, ugly and lacking in access, parking and charm.
There is no substitute for individual flair and innovation and if you prefer the bureaucratic planner than the natural genius you can have it mate. You are in a minority in the Irish republic.

by x Wed May 09, 2007 08:13

I would turn it into social housing. You could make a small portion of it a playground, and then the rest of it you could easily build some 3 or 4 storey units, perhaps like the ones on Bride St/Golden Lane (very nice architecture). That way you'd be doing the poorer citizens of the city a big favour. You should be able to build up to 3 storeys as well as most of the houses in the area are that size. It should definitely be social housing rather than shared ownership or affordable as there has not been social housing built in that part of the city for years, and its unlikely another chance for that to happen will come up.

Dub. City Council would have a hard time refusing permission for social housing.
Actually thats nonsense, of course they'd refuse it.

by Save Our green Spaces! Wed May 09, 2007 10:00

Not a personal piggybank.

Many communities use it- and not just the residents.

Do you want the list?

1. Royal Victoria Hospital patients.
2.Kids from the flats.
3.Kids from the houses.
4.Local walkers.
5.Couples.(gay and straight and possibly threesomes)
6.Not the residents. Not an individual.
7.The people of Dublin.

Now where and how it slipped into private hands is a whole other story.
And who Mr O Gara fronts for is another story. There is a lot of information
gathering going on. It is not a private playground for the well-heeled of the
Square (either).

To reduce an argument to the issue of just the residents- who have been threatened by Mister O Gara
is a piece of spin worthy of the lobbyists- and completely transparent.

Benefit the people of Dublin and endow the fucking square. :-)

Social housing is impossible with the lack of access and parking, Its closed out on two sides and
faces the canal. Will mr O Gara institute a bit of planning to transcend the logisitical problems?

by Traveller Thu May 10, 2007 10:02

2002 - Housing Bill (miscellaneous Provisions) , commonly known as
the trespass law is what mitigates against:
Travellers.
Community struggle (Rossport/Pallaskennry)

Mr O Gara can weep into his pint or his well expensive shoes.
I fail to see how wanting to build for profit on Urban green spaces can
positively effect anyonhe, except maybe himself, his backers and the brown envelope
brigade.

One man's freedom (all his) is a community oppression.

Mr O Gara asserts his right to cash and wealth above the right of the community
to green spaces.

Please!

by Tony Maloney Thu May 10, 2007 11:22

Mr. O'Gara,
You say above that you plan to run in the constituency that "your" park resides, Dublin South East. I look forward to meeting you during your election campaign and hope you canvass in my area. When you do, I will let you know what pain and anguish you have placed on the residents of the constituency and let you know that I would prefer to vote for Joseph Stalin than have you elected TD for Dublin South East.
Regards.

by On the Breadline Thu May 10, 2007 18:45

Mr. Gara is putting the facts on the table. The name of the game ior what the cool word is "MONEY".We cannot survive without. I admire anyone whogoes out there and work and build up an empire. It takes courage. and one has to be admired for that.t.
I wonder how much is ONE of the main stream posters costs,Can anyone give us a idea. The placce is full of them.

by notafriendofNOG Fri May 11, 2007 00:34

The land isn't zoned for development of any kind.

by Rob Fri May 11, 2007 10:12

I make it my business never to argue with a fool or a drunk.

However, I would just like to point out to readers a few of the many inaccuracies in Noel O'Gara's post.

The Burlington Hotel is not an amenity for the area. In fact, it has no involvement whatsoever with the local community. I suggest bias in Mr O'Gara's opinions due to the fact that he received a free lunch when he married his Thai wife there. (source: Irish Times 31/03/2007)

Nobody disputes the ineptitude of Dublin City Council in dealing with the title of the square pre-2005, and their incompetence has never been "laid at his door".

However, the reluctance of DCC to purchase the interest the Darley Estate possessed was obviously due to the incomplete nature of the title being offered, and hence highlights the incomplete nature of the title Mr O'Gara now possesses.

Mr. O'Gara's insistence that the land is valued in a similar manner to the Burlington or Jurys site is incorrect. Dartmouth Square is currently, and will always be, zoned as open space. Therefore, its value is incomparable to the hotel sites, which are zoned as development land. If Mr O'Gara is looking for an accurate market value of Dartmouth Square, he should look to the price paid by property developer Johnny Ronan, who purchased nearby Fitzwilliam Square in late 2006. One may assume that Mr. O'Gara would not be as happy with that valuation of his property, as it is likely to be a fraction of the 120 million he wishes to extort from DCC. It is however unquestionably an appropriate indication of the negligible economic value of Dartmouth Square.

by We the People Fri May 11, 2007 18:38

Hi Noel. I wholeheartedly agree with your manifesto as it endevours the return of the Land to the People.

I will take you up on the offer to purchase an acre of Land from you in Meath for less than €4000. I will then drill my well,install wind/solar energy systems ,install a small dwelling and live mortgage free.

Thanks again.

by Save Our Green Spaces Fri May 11, 2007 19:16

The S.I.B paves the way for the GM crops.

but let us not bother with his diversionary tactics which represent a microcosm
of what is wrong with this blessed land.

How funny that the idiot believes in his inalienable rights above the wealth and health of
a community with a finite resource.

This translated in macrocosm is what pushes the Iraq and eco-disaster agenda.

yes- O Gara insist on your rights. we will help you destroy our lovely parks
for our own gain!!!

no bother- now where do you keep the brown envelopes. (?)

by Green Goddess Fri May 11, 2007 20:00

Did Iread above that O'gara is competing against McDowel, or was it Hearne (iv got myself confussted now reading all the funny and not so funny comments.) IAnyway, If it's Ogara and McDowell I would confidently say O'Gara will win. He has come out and spoke his mind, ,told us how it is, kfept his2 eyes on the ball and could invisage a good investment. Now isn't that something we should admire him for. He obviously is a keen & steady businessman, No harm to let him at it. If I was fortunatel enough to have some lolly to start up a business, who would iI go to for advise? Think about it. !!! Which of them? and tellthe truth!!!!

by paul Fri May 11, 2007 20:27

you would be better off voting for labour, as they have a comprehensive education policy. judging by your literacy level, you will need to avail of it.

by Save our green spaces Sat May 12, 2007 14:14

dear god , man!

This is a city that needs park for its children.

beneficial devlopment is as i stated before beneficial to those pockets that hide your hands
and balance books. are you not capable of seeing that it is people like you who own the
gombeens in our government who are bringing destruction to our environment.

an underground carpark and health centre is a way of making cash. cold cash.
the houses which you keep referring to are a small part of a large argument
that you choose to ignore.

This park belongs to the people of dublin.
it is not your money bank.

you show yuouself as an uneducated and selfish man, who thinks that you can take
or claw with one hand what you believe to be yours and give it back at profit.

There is a lack of generoisity in your spirit that is truly baffling.

I do not own the books I collect , nor would I sell them for profit. They are a
means for future generations to understand the world and a gift.

Endow the park- get over the residents and your profiteering. they do not own the
square , they happen to live beside it.

give the kids a place. afterall when you have tried to squeeze every profit you can from it
it will only pay for maybe you ill health or dotage- would it not be better to have
a beautiful park to sit in to watch the pretty girls than a shambolic piece of
concrete to regard a degraded human environment.

SAVE OUR GREEN SPACES- you utter twit!

by G. Gdss Sat May 12, 2007 16:04

Paul,
Thank you for your nice comments. You' have helped me decide who to vote for. Many thanksG. G.

by Save Our Green Spaces Sat May 12, 2007 16:30

just by repeating your ire at the residents of Dartmouth will not
change the fact that they just happen to live beside a green space.

They do not own it.
But they know its value to the people of Dublin.
The people of Dublin own Dartmouth Square.

The like the residents of Erris and Tara know that natural
beauty is a finite resource, and are more than likely willing to
fight for stewardship- not ownership.

Mr O Gara , you have a piece of paper to which you are not entitle until
you learn the meaning of responsibility. stewardship. Finite + resource.

I suggest you take a class!

by Noel O'Gara - THE PLANNING REFORM PARTY Sat May 12, 2007 17:09

If you are so much in love with the park why not get the residents to club together and buy it from me?

Your houses are worth almost 4 million each so the park would enhance their value greatly.
The houses on Leeson park and surrounding areas can command values of up to 6 million.

Some houses are rented out for about 2,000 euros per week each. How about that for an extortionate rent?
Make me a realistic offer and I will consider it.
I have asked a few residents this before but no response came so now I put it in writing.

If you buy my two acres then you can have exclusive use of it.

by Save Our Green Spaces Sat May 12, 2007 17:27

Blackmail.
cajolement.
corruption.

are not what ordinary people like do!

its not about money- its about conservation for future generations.

maybe psychiatric care would help loose the old understanding
Mr O Gara. People care about the future not your money.

They happen to live beside the park- they do not claim
ownership.

by Save Our Green Spaces Mon May 14, 2007 07:31

Green dots are incredibily important on our maps.
They provide a useful contrast to the hatchery of grey, red, blue lines that denote
the lack of breathing and living spaces for the ordinary population of a city
that is badly planned, sprawling, subject to the corruption of the PPP.

Where profit corners living space and there are few community areas available to people.
one tiny bit of honesty is necessary, Mr O Gara and that it this:-

The residents happen to live by the park. It is not owned by them, nor is it
a place that they can claim and lock with a key. It is owned and used by
the people of Dublin ( I gave you the list earlier). If the residents attempted
to cordon off the park to ameliorate their property values, they would too
have it pointed out to them that this space is somewhere which generations
of Dubliners have used for walking, talking, eating, necking and recovering
from illness in.

If you must challenge planning, the best place to start is the Housing Bill
(Miscellaneous Provisions) 2002- where a government deep in corruption
mitigated against the traveller and community to ensure fast-track planning
on behalf of share-holders in corporate interests would have that land
for toxic waste- GM- PPP developments.

They have attacked our indigenous cultures and sense of community to
profit the so rich that find their nourishment in the coke fuelled, fake tanned
stupidly diluted social butterfly life- so elegantly ignored in the opus
of MS Ahern and her darling father an Taoiseach.

by Joe King - . Thu May 17, 2007 12:37 joe.king.headcount at gmial dot com

Good on on you noel , its about time that someone stood up and highlighted the failures which have taken place with in our planning laws.I am fully supportive of you in your quest for justice, its a crying shame that some official with in dcc did not do his / her job,resulting in this getting out of hand and you getting it in the neck.
Getting back to the park , the land belongs to you ,so why not start to up the ante by bringing in some contractors to cut down some of the trees and remove some of the shrubs,this action will surly bring dcc to attention and maybe move it along in the direction whch suits you.

good luck

by We the People. Thu May 17, 2007 15:03

I would agree with you. Noel O'Gara does own Darthmouth Sq., He did buy it , nothing is more simpler.

The real issue , is that the People's Land and Property , it could be any one of us next , is robbed by the Legal mafia through concocted Deeds and C.P.O.s by Councils for private developers around the entire Counrty. There is a large meeting on the issue this Friday at the Talbot Hotel Wexford. Many of the gangsters will be named , so do come along if any one out there has been robber over the years.

Even the People who have paid large sums for their Homes can be robber through C.P.O.s AND THEY DO NOT REALISE IT .

This is the issue that Noel O.Gara is on about. The Planning Laws are unconstitutional - period , they need to changed or abolished and replaced.

No one is safe from their Homes being robbed by the legal mafia in the Councils, anywhere.

It will be worth while for anyone to attend this meeting. They might learn something about how this Country REALLY operates.

It has come to our notice ,that certain members on the Bench are granting orders for People to vacate their Property to pave way for developements.
All will be unveiled in good time.

by Save Our Green Spaces Thu May 17, 2007 15:32

Personal wealth and greed is not the way to go- its hardly altruistic.

Noel o gara has menaced , [on this arena and by mail the people of Dartmouth Square
and the people of dublin], through his seeking of profit and devopment on a green space.

if you are serious about educating, two things;-

1. drop noel o gara ( he like others with pretensions to political power have alone their own
interests at heart)
2. I heard deaf and dumb silence in relation to SIB, housing (miscellaneous Provisions)
2002 from yer lot, suggest that instead of hanging an issue on the obviously deranged
mr o gara that you read and disseminate the legislation and get good legal advice.

vehicles for change fronted by sophists and the greedy are doomed to be covered in manure
and bad feeling.

good luck!